2012 Jeep Wrangler vs older Cayenne

[island911]

Originally Posted by Dantilla

Disclaimer: My wife drives a Rubicon!

I'd go with the Jeep.

First, Cayennes are really ugly, and when I see one, I try not to assume its just somebody who is image-conscience, but I wonder if they are just an image-conscience soccer mom.
....
The VW Toureg does not have any of the negative stereotypes as the Cayenne, and they look better.

Jeep vs. VW would be a closer decision, but I'd still go with the Jeep. Make mine a 2-door.

Funny, before I bought I was considering that the Toureg had a more appropriate, more truck-like body styling than the 955. But the 955 interior is better (cleaner) than the T-reg. Since I'm looking at the interior most of the time I chose the 955. --glad I did.

But, as you allude to, those "Jeep people" are very image conscious, and have to have a "Jeep." Whereas the Cayenne is more suited for people who aren't so hung-up on brand.. .and what other people think. I mean, sure, you'll say "it's a Porsche" but really, it seems that SUV people don't buy an SUV because "it's a Porsche," and Porsche people don't by SUV's --although, clearly, that is changing. ...I know that I didn't want to like it. ...and yet now I have one.

Anyway, I get how you say "Jeep vs. VW would be a closer decision," from a looks standpoint, but really, the Cayenne is so much better in every way. Well, once you get over the "WTF was Porsche thinking, building an SUV?" issue. Then, even the soft styling makes sense.

[KNS]

I wouldn't buy one but it sounds like you can pick up Cayennes very cheap right now. I was watching "The Car Show" the other night, there was a guy who bought a 2006 Cayenne Turbo for $134,000 new! They estimated it was worth from between $30,000-40,000 right now.

That's $100,000 depreciation in five years...! Ouch.

[johnsjmc]

I bought a used 2000 Jeep Wrangler in 2007 to use at a house I have in Florida. I paid $6000 sold it last year for $6200. Although I only put on about 10000 mi in 3 yrs. That's pretty good depreciation.!!

[Seattle Diver]

I bought a new 2007 Wrangler Unlimited in Sept 2006.

I know, don't buy the first year of a new model, it has a mini van engine, its like a rubbermaid tub on the inside, the 4x4 system is crude compared to the push button, leather seat, auto climate control features in other SUVs.

This is my 4th Jeep Wrangler and is arguably the best of the lot. 4 Doors, removable hard top w/the freedom top 3 piece feature. Just enough civility and space added to make it more practical than a two door but not so much that the rawness and character that makes a jeep wrangler is lost.

Take the whole top off, remove all 4 doors and you are in some sort of adventure rig like no other new vehicle available. A drive to the store is a safari and off road, this thing is a goat that keeps up with every thing else out there similarly equipped. We had a serious snowfall 3 years ago and for a little less than a week my jeep was the only vehicle on the road in our neighborhood - we ended up driving several of our neighbors to the store because they couldn't get off our hill in their higher priced, more luxurious SUVs.

Others have mentioned resale but just for fun I paid 26K for this vehicle new - KBB Private party sale lists value at $21,600. Draw your own conclusions but seems like a jeep is a good way with go with a minimal downside service wise and a high likelihood to retain more value percentage wise than anything else in its class.

[jyl]

No contest. All of those late model German high end models are stuffed with electronic systems and expensive components that need factory diagnostics to service. He'd better like 60 mile tow jobs and a $1,000 just for walking into the dealers' bay. Oh, you actually want your bargain Cayenne fixed? Start peeling $1K bills off your roll and stop when we feel like it.

I wouldn't own any of them out of warranty, whether we're talking Cayenne or 7-series or A-8 etc. There is a reason why high end, high complexity cars depreciate like rocks.

Get the new Jeep. Or some other new SUV - there are plenty of good ones other than Jeeps. Or a used SUV that can be fixed where he lives, by an independent guy if not by the owner himself.

[Garp]

The CRD version sells quite well here.

4 cylinders in-line

Cubic Capacity (cc)
2777
Valves
16
Bore x Stroke (mm)
94.0 x 100.0

Compression Ratio
16.5:1

Fuel Type
Diesel

Fuel System
Direct Injection, Common Rail, 26,000 PSI

Max. Power - kw (bhp) @ rpm
147 (197) @ 3600

Max. Torque - Nm @ rpm
410 @ 2600

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by island911

But, as you allude to, those "Jeep people" are very image conscious, and have to have a "Jeep." Whereas the Cayenne is more suited for people who aren't so hung-up on brand.. .and what other people think. I mean, sure, you'll say "it's a Porsche" but really, it seems that SUV people don't buy an SUV because "it's a Porsche," and Porsche people don't by SUV's --although, clearly, that is changing. ...I know that I didn't want to like it. ...and yet now I have one.

Now let's be honest here. The average new Cayenne buyer wants one so they can brag that they drive a Porsche. They don't buy for the performance or capability, they buy because it's a status symbol. That's the entire reason for the Cayenne and Panamera, it allows Porsche to cash in on rich people that don't want a small sports car but want to brag that they own a Porsche.

Just take a look around this enthusiast site. How many of the members here are the first owners of their cars? I think there was a poll on this some time back, I doubt if the number is larger than 10%.

[hardflex]

Why can't Chrysler build an engine that doesn't break valve springs?

[island911]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Now let's be honest here. The average new Cayenne buyer wants one so they can brag that they drive a Porsche. They don't buy for the performance or capability, they buy because it's a status symbol. That's the entire reason for the Cayenne and Panamera, it allows Porsche to cash in on rich people that don't want a small sports car but want to brag that they own a Porsche...

I completely disagree. (which, I rarely do w/ your posts). The Cayenne and Panamera stand on their own engineering/design/performance merits and have appeal to Existing Porsche owners. I expect that the majority of NEW Porsche buyers have, or have had, Porsches already.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by island911

I completely disagree. (which, I rarely do w/ your posts). The Cayenne and Panamera stand on their own engineering/design/performance merits and have appeal to Existing Porsche owners. I expect that the majority of NEW Porsche buyers have, or have had, Porsches already.

I totally agree. Frankly the Cayenne and Panamera are both freaks of nature, they bend the laws of physics in ways that no big heavy sedans or SUVs should. For what they are, they are fantastic vehicles. My argument is that while both are very good vehicles, I would be willing to bet that their owners buy them more for that Porsche badge than the capability they provide.

The question is, does the Orange county MILF really care that her Cayenne can ford creeks, climb a 45% grade, and go 0-60 in 5 seconds? Or does she just like telling her friends that she drives a Porsh?

[island911]

Originally Posted by jyl

No contest. All of those late model German high end models are stuffed with electronic systems and expensive components that need factory diagnostics to service. ....

First, most every new $30k+ car is stuffed with electronic systems and expensive components that need factory diagnostics to service.

That said, to access all of that Porsche electronic system stuff, it's something like $200 for the Durametric software & cable designed specifically to plug into the Porsches.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by island911

First, most every new $30k+ car is stuffed with electronic systems and expensive components that need factory diagnostics to service.

That said, to access all of that Porsche electronic system stuff, it's something like $200 for the Durametric software & cable designed specifically to plug into the Porsches.

There you go thinking like a DIY enthusiast type again. Remember that the average person doesn't know or care to know about diagnostic software, they just want their car fixed. Pep Boys doesn't have Porsche diagnostic software.

[island911]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

.
The question is, does the Orange county MILF really care that her Cayenne can ford creeks, climb a 45% grade, and go 0-60 in 5 seconds? Or does she just like telling her friends that she drives a Porsh?

I thought that those people bought Ferrariis and Lambo's...

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

.....
The question is, does the Orange county MILF really care that her Cayenne can ford creeks, climb a 45% grade, and go 0-60 in 5 seconds? Or does she just like telling her friends that she drives a Porsh?

Well, I can tell you my wife's POV - over the summer, with my driving the 911, she pretty much abandoned her S-class MBz and has stolen my Cayenne -and she drives it as such (stolen)... gas mileage tells that story. ...maybe she's doing track-days w/o telling me. Anyway, the thing about the Cayenne is, it handles the crap roads, and sloppy weather of Seattle with ease and high comfort. It does as you say, seems to bend the laws of physics, and she is hooked.

BTW, do Jeeps STILL roll on a straight axle? ....that can't be good for ride comfort or performance.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Still with the straight axle, you simply can't get that suspension articulation off road with anything else. To their credit it rides fairly well, but you won't mistake it for a luxury car.

[island911]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Still with the straight axle, you simply can't get that suspension articulation off road with anything else. ...

...you say that like it's a good thing.

..are you saying that range of motion is increased because it's straight? ...Should HumVees ditch the independent, and go to straight (like WW2)?

[island911]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

There you go thinking like a DIY enthusiast type again. Remember that the average person doesn't know or care to know about diagnostic software, they just want their car fixed. Pep Boys doesn't have Porsche diagnostic software.

Does Pep Boys have OnStar diagnostic software?

[onewhippedpuppy]

I'm no off-road guru, but I believe that the biggest solid axle advantage is in extreme off-camber situations, like rock crawling. With one wheel up on a big rock the other wheel with a solid axle pivots downwards with more droop than an IRS, giving you much better contact with the ground for traction. Take a look at trucks built for rock crawling, they always have solid axles.

The original Hummer is incredibly capable off road, but it wasn't built with the Rubicon trail in mind either.

[johnsjmc]

To me the biggest solid axle advantages are strength,and simplicity. That said the front solid axle in my wife,s Jeep Rubicon also drives very well over very bumpy roads (terrible potholes etc) with little or no strong kick back through the steering . Big camber changes with an IRS /IFS suspension will move the vehicle all over the road.
The new Wrangler also includes traction control and ABS so it isn't without some electronics onboard. The Jeep would still be my choice re the original use scenario decribed.
We have a 2010 Jeep Wrangler (4 dr Rubicon) and a 1995 993. I prefer the 2wd 993 not 4wd for sporty driving. Prefer the Jeep in poor weather. I,ve owned other sports cars and other SUVs

[techweenie]

Read my sig.

I've had an Explorer and a Blazer -- neither of which gave me any trouble at all. But Jeeps have been very very good to me. I've had 5 of them. I like my #2 vehicle to be disposable, so I've gotten into the mode of buying the classic Cherokees for under $2K, using them for 12-18 months, selling them for $2.5K and buying another. The current one cost me $1700. Will be selling it soon...

[speeder]

Out of curiosity after reading this thread, I checked eBay and holy cow do those Jeeps hold their value!

That says more than anything about whether something is a good vehicle or a POS, in my book anyways. Being from snow country, I've never liked them because I grew up w/ CJs and we considered them the worst vehicle ever made. They are hands-down the worst thing to drive in snow, I'd prefer an old Ford LTD with bald tires. They're handy for driving around off-road, (think battlefield), but unbelievably horrible on the highway or in snow/ice. Tippy/spinny and just downright dangerous in either condition. Giving one to a teenager for a DD would mean that you really did not like that kid.

This shows you how up-to-date I am on Jeep products. Apparently they have really improved the rigs for on-road performance and I have to admit that the new ones look cool and very tough/durable. The resale value plus the testimonials here prove that people really love them. My only other data point was a roommate back in the late '80s bought one of the first Wranglers and it broke a shock mount the first time that he went off-road in it. He claimed that he was not abusing it at all. I also heard that the Rubicon model was WAY tougher, though...is this correct?

The Cayenne is such a different animal. It will walk all over any jeep on pavement, (dry or otherwise), and that is where most SUV drivers spend ~100% of their time. With the exception of Jeep owners, apparently.