Insurance Rant

[biosurfer1]

I would say I will switch to Allstate when hell freezes over but even then, I probably wont. They COMPLETELY screwed my family on a normal claim years ago right after the LA earthquake. My dad had our boat insured and the hull cracked due to extreme weather. We had an expert out who said yes, it was not preventable. Allstate didn't agree and sent their own expert who said the same thing. The last conversation we ever had with Allstate was the adjuster telling us that they couldn't pay because of all the claims happening down in LA and we would just have to sue them.

[drcoastline]

Originally Posted by on2wheels52

So is the converse true? ie, once you have a claim, the less likely you are going to have another one?
Jim

Actually, Zeke is correct that is how insurance companies look at it. There is one company and it may be All State that reduces your rate every year for the first few years you don't have an accident and Geico and I think a few others forgive the first accident.

I am not familiar wit Erie but I have heard from many they are a good company. I would think dropping the top would fall under comprehensive as a result should'nt be chargeable. I guess they figure removing the top is considered operating the vehicle which would fall under collision and that is chargeable. Be prepared if they did file under collision the AS rate is going to change. Accidents follow you from one carrier to another for three years.

[flipper35]

Our homowners insurance dropped us because we had some hail damage to our roof which they paid out $275 and then had some wind damage the next year that caused this at which point they told us to find someone else.



The motorcycle trailer was parked in a different driveway.

[gacook]

I have USAA, and have for years. They're great. I've had multiple small claims (both wives--former and current--have an affinity for hitting parked cars or other inanimate objects...say brighly painted, yellow poles); I've gotten a speeding ticket or 2 (one which was "criminal"--doing 110 in a 75...); had to replace multiple windshields; ex-wife had a problem with the washing machine flooding, and she was unable to turn off the water to it, so it flooded the house (I was out of the country), so they replaced all the carpet in the house (I decided to go tile, and paid the difference), replaced floorboards and drywall in 3 bedrooms; and my premiums have never gone up. They're ridiculously fast to respond, too. Absolutely great company. Only problem I've ever had with them was when I was living in Boston. I had a car audio system that I'd just spent $3,000 on get stolen a month after I'd installed it. They gave me $800 for it due to depreciation. That ticked me off a bit, but overall, I'm still very pleased with them.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by on2wheels52

So is the converse true? ie, once you have a claim, the less likely you are going to have another one?
Jim

Originally Posted by plumb4u2

I agree his comment makes no sense to me

I wish I had the citations to back up what I believe to be true: once you file a claim after a long period of inactivity, it will be followed by another soon.

But what's not to understand? Once you file a claim, you became an expense to the company. It shows your willingness to file claims for non-accident issues. The difference is between voluntary and involuntary.

[szyzygy]

I'm an actuary. I price life insurance and annuity products. I also provide valuations of contingent events whose outcomes are not known. I'm not an auto insurance actuary, but the general idea is the same.

As more information becomes available, we gain more knowledge of a risk. Imagine you don't know if a die is weighted or not. So you roll the die over and over again and record your observations. You might start with the assumption that out of 6000 rolls, 1000 will be 1, 1000 will be 2, etc....

Say you observed 9 6's out of 10 rolls....you would think that the die is quite loaded!

You can then weight together your prior assumption (that all sides are equal) with the new information using statistical methods (Bayesian or Buhlmann credibilty). Of course the 6000 observations gets more weight and the 10 observations gets less weight. IIRC you need 1083 observations to gain full credibility (assuming certain random loss distribution shapes)

The point is, you showed them your cards

[Tobra]

Showed them his cards? WTF does that mean?




Insurance companies are not in the business of paying claims. They are in the business of making money, hence the job is to find a way to not pay. Shop your business often, every few years at least.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by szyzygy

I'm an actuary. I price life insurance and annuity products. I also provide valuations of contingent events whose outcomes are not known. I'm not an auto insurance actuary, but the general idea is the same.

As more information becomes available, we gain more knowledge of a risk. Imagine you don't know if a die is weighted or not. So you roll the die over and over again and record your observations. You might start with the assumption that out of 6000 rolls, 1000 will be 1, 1000 will be 2, etc....

Say you observed 9 6's out of 10 rolls....you would think that the die is quite loaded!

You can then weight together your prior assumption (that all sides are equal) with the new information using statistical methods (Bayesian or Buhlmann credibilty). Of course the 6000 observations gets more weight and the 10 observations gets less weight. IIRC you need 1083 observations to gain full credibility (assuming certain random loss distribution shapes)

The point is, you showed them your cards

I hope you don't mind the question but can you tell me why apparel is "medium risk?" Or where can I find the actuarial science behind apparel insurance rates?

[szyzygy]

Originally Posted by Tobra

Showed them his cards? WTF does that mean?




Insurance companies are not in the business of paying claims. They are in the business of making money, hence the job is to find a way to not pay. Shop your business often, every few years at least.

it was a mixed metaphor. I was talking about dice before.

You never heard "show your cards" before?

People are risks. Some people are riskier than others.
Like how getting the queen of spades in a game of hearts is not a good thing. Or is that spades? You know what I mean.

No one knows if someone else is riskier usually. But as they say things, do things, this reveals more information that you can then use to determine their true riskiness.

Wrong, insurance companies exist to pay claims. The policy holder comes first.

I do not recommend shopping your insurance. I've been with Liberty Mutual for 25 years. I've had a few accidents, and they always treat me right.

EDIT: Just wanted to add that my last 2 employers are mutual companies. That means the policy holders ARE the owners of the companies. Any profits get paid back to the policy holder, either in the form of dividends, increased death benefit face amount, lower premiums, extended term insurance. I think it's wonderful that a company exists to reduce the risk of premature death or extended longevity to HELP society. We provide good, steady jobs, a benefit to society and the profits go back to the consumer.

[VincentVega]

I'm an actuary. I price life insurance and annuity products. I also provide valuations of contingent events whose outcomes are not known. I'm not an auto insurance actuary, but the general idea is the same.

As more information becomes available, we gain more knowledge of a risk. Imagine you don't know if a die is weighted or not. So you roll the die over and over again and record your observations. You might start with the assumption that out of 6000 rolls, 1000 will be 1, 1000 will be 2, etc....

Say you observed 9 6's out of 10 rolls....you would think that the die is quite loaded!

You can then weight together your prior assumption (that all sides are equal) with the new information using statistical methods (Bayesian or Buhlmann credibilty). Of course the 6000 observations gets more weight and the 10 observations gets less weight. IIRC you need 1083 observations to gain full credibility (assuming certain random loss distribution shapes)

The point is, you showed them your cards

Interesting.

I was very happy with my State Farm agent for ~20 yrs, only ins I ever had. When I moved they told me they wouldnt cover my new place. I ended up saving some $$ with the new company bundled car/house but do miss the great service. I would call the old agents office and they basically asked, "what car did you buy now?", very friendly folks.

[szyzygy]

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

I hope you don't mind the question but can you tell me why apparel is "medium risk?" Or where can I find the actuarial science behind apparel insurance rates?

I am not familiar with that term - are you asking about insuring an apparel company?

[szyzygy]

Originally Posted by VincentVega

Interesting.

I was very happy with my State Farm agent for ~20 yrs, only ins I ever had. When I moved they told me they wouldnt cover my new place. I ended up saving some $$ with the new company bundled car/house but do miss the great service. I would call the old agents office and they basically asked, "what car did you buy now?", very friendly folks.

Was your new place in a flood zone or similarly hazardous area?
maybe they don't have a charter in that state. Some companies don't do business in NY or CA because of the onerous regulations.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by szyzygy

I am not familiar with that term - are you asking about insuring an apparel company?

Yes, I make children's clothing. When I recently (just the other day) asked why we pay so much for liability insurance, the owner of the insurance broker I've used for 20 years said:

"You are with the Hartford for several reasons. The contract is very good and they are a very competitive market for clothing apparel. Clothing apparel does not fall into the minimum premium of $550.00 category because it is in the medium risk not in the lowest risk category."

I asked him what this meant but haven't gotten a reply.

[Hugh R]

Shaun, just a guess, but clothing burns. Maybe because its worn by little boys?

[gacook]

I'd guess shoplifting issues, as well.

[drcoastline]

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

Yes, I make children's clothing. When I recently (just the other day) asked why we pay so much for liability insurance, the owner of the insurance broker I've used for 20 years said:

"You are with the Hartford for several reasons. The contract is very good and they are a very competitive market for clothing apparel. Clothing apparel does not fall into the minimum premium of $550.00 category because it is in the medium risk not in the lowest risk category."

I asked him what this meant but haven't gotten a reply.

I'm in the insurance business and I would like to know what that means. Shaun do you have a BOP with Hartford?

[motion]

That's the dirty little secret in the insurance industry. You make a claim, you get dropped. I can't tell you how many times I've been through this. I spent 10K out of my pocket fixing slab leak damage because if I made a claim, my agent told me, I would be dropped.

In Phoenix, I paid probably 50K out of pocket for damage to vacant homes because if you make a claim in Arizona, it goes into some kind of police database that is accessible by people during real estate transactions.

That said, Liberty Mutual took great care of us recently with hail damage in Montana. I can't say enough great things about them. I'll stick with them until they drop me

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by Hugh R

Shaun, just a guess, but clothing burns. Maybe because its worn by little boys?

That's possible Hugh.

Originally Posted by gacook

I'd guess shoplifting issues, as well.

I'm technically a manufacturer and sell to retail stores.

Originally Posted by drcoastline

I'm in the insurance business and I would like to know what that means. Shaun do you have a BOP with Hartford?

I will have to dig out our policy on Monday.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Geico 10+ years and couldn't be happier. One small hail claim, one roadside assistance use, and a few small tickets didn't change a thing. The best telephone customer service of any company that I've dealt with. I do a lot of car swapping so I'm constantly changing my policy, they are always polite, fast, and helpful.

[Rick V]

Insurance companies are NOT your friends, they are in the business of making money and nothing else. They could give less than a rats a55 about you or your situation.