Ukraine Ugly

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by porwolf

The big problem for the US is their insistence to meddle in the Ukraine. That is like Russia or China getting involved if trouble starts in Mexico.

Yep.

It is simply not our problem.

[GWN7]

Too late, Russia has already acted. First there were armed Russian speaking people who took over a airport (they just weren't wearing their uniforms) to now "

LIVE VIDEO: President Barack Obama is set to deliver a statement on Ukraine from the White House. His planned remarks come just after U.S. officials confirmed to NBC News that uniformed Russian forces were flying into a city in Ukraine's Crimea."

Watch:
Obama Warns Russia: "There Will Be Costs" for Ukraine Intervention | NBC Bay Area

[JJ 911SC]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Yep.

It is simply not our problem.

Nothing to worry about, with the speech Obama jut did, it leave no doubt.

Just another line in the sand that can be cross with no consequences if crossed.

[cashflyer]

Originally Posted by J P Stein

Ukraine Ugly

I have to say, this thread is not what I expected.
Since it's not in PARF, I thought it would be along the lines of "there's ugly, then there's Ukraine ugly".



Carry on.






.

[tabs]

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-politics-religion/798386-game-foot-ukraine.html

[cairns]

It is simply not our problem.

Right. Neither are Russian warships docked in Cuba. While Mr. Putin is seeking to bring them to Venezuela, Nicaragua and, if our President had his way, San Francisco harbor.

Poland, Austria and Czechoslovakia weren't our problems either. Neither was Hungary. Or East Germany. Or Syria.

We could be recognizing the new government in the Ukraine, rallying our European allies and imposing sanctions on Mr. Putin and preparing an aid package.

But Putin's attempt to rebuild the Russian empire and repress the will of the Ukrainians isn't our problem.

Until it is.

[tabs]

I says let Putin's Russian Navy dock in San Francisco, it was once their territory anyway....Let them fly the Russian banner high and proud over Frisco....and then let us sit back and watch the fun...As Putin represses the fun loving Friskians...then we shall see how Nancy Pelosi squeals about the Russian's rough handling of her beloved Friskians....

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by cairns

Right. Neither are Russian warships docked in Cuba. While Mr. Putin is seeking to bring them to Venezuela, Nicaragua and, if our President had his way, San Francisco harbor.

Poland, Austria and Czechoslovakia weren't our problems either. Neither was Hungary. Or East Germany. Or Syria.

We could be recognizing the new government in the Ukraine, rallying our European allies and imposing sanctions on Mr. Putin and preparing an aid package.

But Putin's attempt to rebuild the Russian empire and repress the will of the Ukrainians isn't our problem.

Until it is.

What a load of crap. Ukraine is one thing, Germany is another. Ukraine isn't our problem. Western Europe is. Frankly, I don't give a fsck if Putin takes Ukraine, or Lithuania, or Poland. He can have them all. Move into Germany or Austria, and get a full load of U.S. military pushed into his face. The U.S. can't be the whole world's cop. So don't even try. I don't want to spend money on all those eastern European countries. But I will spend my money on western Europe.

[HardDrive]

How can one say the Russians have no claim to Crimea? Its laughable. They clearly do.

[sc_rufctr]

It's a world problem so the UN should do whatever needs to be done.

Putin is a joke... Clearly a homophobe and probably a closet gay and he's the one making decisions?

[sammyg2]

On a news commentary show this morning I heard an amusing quip:

"An iron fist vs. a limp wrist".

EOM

[fintstone]

I don't see much difference in the Ukraine than any other european country. The bear has to start somewhere....if successful, it doesn't mean he will stop there. This is not the first tme this has happened.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by fintstone

I don't see much difference in the Ukraine than any other european country. The bear has to start somewhere....if successful, it doesn't mean he will stop there. This is not the first tme this has happened.

So, you're making a slippery slope argument. Today, Ukraine, next year, Great Britain?

I just want to make sure I know exactly what your concern is, because as I see it, there are no physical U.S. interests at stake here, only philosophical ones. And if it's my money that's going to be spent, I want it spent in a way that has a tangible benefit. And I don't see any tangible benefits in keeping the Russians out of Ukraine. (Never mind that there is no way in hell any kind of actual direct action makes it past any politicians in D.C.)

[cairns]

and get a full load of U.S. military pushed into his face.

Yeah right.....and our President will suddenly grow balls. Since this thread started, Putin has recalled our ambassador, shut down the airports in the Crimea, sent thousands of troops there and provided safe harbor to his criminal crony with the crappy car collection.

And Obama made an exercise video.

So, you're making a slippery slope argument. Today, Ukraine, next year, Great Britain?

And you're ignoring the lessons of history.

[Iciclehead]

Shades of Neville Chamberlain - "Peace in our Time" and Munich.....

You guys know that what Tabs is saying is right.....right? History is repeating itself with a couple of minor and one major change.

The couple of minor changes are that your allies have systematically allowed themselves to be dependent on the US for military projection and the children of this age have, thanks to "progressive" teaching a lack of principled approach to issues. As some of the comments in this thread witness, they prefer to do the expedient rather than the right thing.

The major change is sovereign debt, particularly the US, but also EU and most others. The only two major powers who can act unilaterally are Russia and China, neither of which have all that much difference from the Axis powers of the 1930's.

The principled course of action is for the US to rally its allies, recognize the Ukraine's new government, state clearly what the actions will be if Russia tries to subvert the will of the Ukrainian people.....and then do them.

Measured, thoughtful, unified response.

Not an 'effin chance of that happening though.

Dennis

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6

So, you're making a slippery slope argument. Today, Ukraine, next year, Great Britain?

I just want to make sure I know exactly what your concern is, because as I see it, there are no physical U.S. interests at stake here, only philosophical ones. And if it's my money that's going to be spent, I want it spent in a way that has a tangible benefit. And I don't see any tangible benefits in keeping the Russians out of Ukraine. (Never mind that there is no way in hell any kind of actual direct action makes it past any politicians in D.C.)

How is this different than the last time when we had to draw the line at Berlin? or the time before when we drew the line at Dunkirk? If one cannot see the value in keeping Russia from rebuilding the Soviet Bloc...it has to start soemewhere. If they don't respect the Ukraine border, whey would we expect them to respect any other?

[Rick Lee]

There are two kinds of problems in the world - theirs and ours. This is clearly one of theirs.

We are sorely lacking in money, allies, a clear and present nat. sec. threat and political will to be getting involved in Russia's backyard. Ukraine can want to be western all they want, and we should welcome it. But until they have allies in Europe who are willing and able to enforce their demands on Russia, we need to STF out of it.

[fintstone]

The point is...it would not be happeneing if we were not percieved as weak and feckless.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by fintstone

The point is...it would not be happeneing if we were not percieved as weak and feckless.

I agree. But that's where we are now and there's point in making things worse. Making empty threats just makes bad things more likely later on.

[fintstone]

The planned reduction of or military to a shell will make things like this the new normal.