Ukraine Ugly

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by AZ_porschekid

What would Romney do?

Didn't Romney get blasted for saying Russia was the biggest threat to US nat. sec. interests a while back?

I kind of wonder if Obama (I mean Valerie Jarrett) is even driving this policy. I suspect it has more to do with John Kerry's naïve view that it's the US's job to insert itself into every situation anywhere in the world and look like we have to step in to rescue others.

[RWebb]

The US will impose sanctions, along with Europe. Putin's oil grip is loosening due to US shale gas etc.

Expect to see more exports of energy from the US to Europe.



The cute Olympic party mask has fallen away, revealing the rabid Russian Bear for what it is, a snarling empire grasping beast.

[nynor]

oh, yes. sanctions. poor putin,

[enzo1]

Originally Posted by RWebb

The US will impose sanctions, along with Europe. Putin's oil grip is loosening due to US shale gas etc.

.

Shifting energy trends blunt Russia’s natural-gas weapon - The Washington Post

[porwolf]

Originally Posted by nynor

well, i'll come out and say it: we should do NOTHING. let europe deal with it.

Agree. If the Ukraine is a problem for other nations then it is a problem for the ones closest to it. Russia, Poland, Germany, France, England. In that order.

[imcarthur]

Headline: Ukraine army on full alert . . . they should look back at the events of August 2008 before they make their next move.

The US is powerless, the EU is powerless, the UN Security Council will be useless & NATO will (and should) sit pat. We are watching the breakup of Ukraine & a potential civil war. The slim hope is the financial play card.

At this point: It won't end well.

Ian

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by scottbombedout

I'll come out and say it. Europe should do nothing. What has Putin ever done to me?

This is all down to the EU courting the Ukraine. For what? So we can pour more money from the maxed out credit card into it. No thanks.

hear, hear. Same for the USA.

[tabs]

As stated Putin's goal is the reconstitution of the Russian Empire as originally constituted by Peter the Great...and regaining the world stage as a world power. That he rightfully thinks Russia should be.

Putin would like to think of himself as a strongman like Stalin, but he does not have the same malevolent temperament as Stalin.

The USA does have an interest in containing Russian/Putin's power if not for the present but for the futures sake. It would be much easier and cheaper to stop him now rather than later. .

One doubts that Putins aims go as far as Poland, except perhaps to have Poland in the Russian sphere of influence. Putin is aware of history and realizes where WW2 started and that was the invasion of Poland in Sept of 39.

Contrary to some peoples belief a free and Democratic Poland (as goes Poland so goes the rest of Eastern Europe) is in the national interest of the USA...for if Eastern Europe should fall under the sway of Russia we are right back to where we were in 1989. Only this time around Putin is not bound to an ideological pov, and as such is far more dangerous of a foe. Also Putin has covered his back door with trade agreements with China.

Putin has witnessed the corruption and implosion of the Soviet system and is not bound to make the same mistakes. Putin is a Machiavellian Great White who seizes opportunity when he sees it.

One thing that the US can do is to unilaterally put those missiles back into Poland...and start up a cozy relationship with Georgia. again That will make Putin howl...and he will back off if he sees that the US is resolute in its containment of him Putin is aware of the weakness in his own hand and will not overstep himself. The US should indicate that we do not need PUTIN nor Russia largess in dealing with Iran, Syria, China nor any other place in the world if push comes to shove. Putin needs to be kept in his place and not be allowed to expand his power base and thus be able to play a stronger and more demanding hand.

There I just made the assessment and or job that the President of the USA should have made..

[motion]

Originally Posted by tabs

As stated Putin's goal is the reconstitution of the Russian Empire as originally constituted by Peter the Great...and regaining the world stage as a world power. That he rightfully thinks Russia should be.

Putin would like to think of himself as a strongman like Stalin, but he does not have the same malevolent temperament as Stalin.

The USA does have an interest in containing Russian/Putin's power if not for the present but for the futures sake. It would be much easier and cheaper to stop him now rather than later. .

One doubts that Putins aims go as far as Poland, except perhaps to have Poland in the Russian sphere of influence. Putin is aware of history and realizes where WW2 started and that was the invasion of Poland in Sept of 39.

Contrary to some peoples belief a free and Democratic Poland (as goes Poland so goes the rest of Eastern Europe) is in the national interest of the USA...for if Eastern Europe should fall under the sway of Russia we are right back to where we were in 1989. Only this time around Putin is not bound to an ideological pov, and as such is far more dangerous of a foe. Also Putin has covered his back door with trade agreements with China.

Putin has witnessed the corruption and implosion of the Soviet system and is not bound to make the same mistakes. Putin is a Machiavellian Great White who seizes opportunity when he sees it.

One thing that the US can do is to unilaterally put those missiles back into Poland...and start up a cozy relationship with Georgia. again That will make Putin howl...and he will back off if he sees that the US is resolute in its containment of him Putin is aware of the weakness in his own hand and will not overstep himself. The US should indicate that we do not need PUTIN nor Russia largess in dealing with Iran, Syria, China nor any other place in the world if push comes to shove. Putin needs to be kept in his place and not be allowed to expand his power base and thus be able to play a stronger and more demanding hand.

There I just made the assessment and or job that the President of the USA should have made..

[tabs]

THANK YOU.

We are entering into a dangerous time for the world where one mistake can not only lead to war but put the Global economy at RISK! The Global economy is becoming an evermore fragile thing.

One further thing a long term goal of Putins maybe to have Russia become the DOMINANT POWER in the world replacing the USA. One does not push that notion so far as PUTIN's AGE is against him. In other words he doesn't have the time to achieve that goal. However he can and will if he can reconstitute the old Russian Empire of Peter the Great in 21st century terms.

[JJ 911SC]

Originally Posted by RWebb

... The cute Olympic party mask has fallen away...

Until the next "show", unless anybody else don't show up...

Canadian Ambassador To Russia Recalled, Preparation For G8 Summit Suspended

[oldE]

Originally Posted by tabs

As stated Putin's goal is the reconstitution of the Russian Empire as originally constituted by Peter the Great...and regaining the world stage as a world power. That he rightfully thinks Russia should be.

Putin would like to think of himself as a strongman like Stalin, but he does not have the same malevolent temperament as Stalin.

Putin is a Machiavellian Great White who seizes opportunity when he sees it.

Putin needs to be kept in his place and not be allowed to expand his power base and thus be able to play a stronger and more demanding hand.

Tabs,

Perhaps I am mis-interpreting your statements, but you seem to be contradicting your self from the beginning to the end of your post.
Did you mean to say "that he thinks Russia rightfully should be"?

Also, I suspect Putin is every bit as dangerous as Stalin. He has adapted to the media age and knows he must dispose of his enemies with more discression than Joseph.
The timing of the intervention after the wave of bonhomie of the Olympics was probably worth every ruble spent on the games.

I think we are seeing Hungary ('56) replayed.
Best
Les

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Seems like a lot of compensation for one snowflake ring and some dirty water.

Why would anyone play Putin's game? Bush got rolled in the Georgian proxy war, Obama will in this one too if he and the rest of our allies do anything but shut Russia out. One of the key benefits of a global economy.

Let Putin spend his money trying to take Ukraine. Let the Ukrainians spend their blood trying to keep it. You can't buy Independence at Walmart.

[cairns]

Also, I suspect Putin is every bit as dangerous as Stalin. He has adapted to the media age and knows he must dispose of his enemies with more discression than Joseph.
The timing of the intervention after the wave of bonhomie of the Olympics was probably worth every ruble spent on the games.

I think we are seeing Hungary ('56) replayed.

Agreed.

[David]

If the US was at risk of losing it's only warm water port, we would do the same thing Russia is doing. It's sad that news has become such a big business that it has to make everything sound like the end is near so that we all watch the news to see what happens next.

[recycled sixtie]

Originally Posted by David

If the US was at risk of losing it's only warm water port, we would do the same thing Russia is doing. It's sad that news has become such a big business that it has to make everything sound like the end is near so that we all watch the news to see what happens next.

A very valid objective opinion David. Well said.
G.

[J P Stein]

I hear that Spain is sending troops into Texas to protect Spanish speaking peoples and to protect their oil suppy should the Keystone pipeline be built.

The White House announced that there is going to be a security council meeting a week from next Thursday......The president may attend...if his foursome is rained out.

[motion]

You need to understand the average Russian mentality to really understand Putin's objectives. Where by Americans could really care less if they are a world power or not - we really just care if we can get our hands on the latest 70" OLED 3D television - Russians are an extremely proud, arrogant people who believe they are the most superior race in the entire world. Also, remember that Russia is really just 2 cities. The rest are irrelevant. And actually, its just one city. St Petersburg is a tourist town. The few mile radius extending from Red Square contains an unimaginable amount of money and influence.

I doubt the Russians will sit still until they achieve their goal, which is to be taken seriously, as they were at various times in the recent past. The loss of states during the breakup of the USSR is still smarting. The Russians want revenge. They have an incredible history and culture that they are extremely proud of, and rightfully so. Just as we adamantly wish (force) to expand our brand of democracy, the Russians wish to expand their vision.

[J P Stein]

Did ya ever wonder. ???

Hitler invaded Poland from the West.
GB & France declared war on Germany.
Stalin invaded Poland from the East at the same time.
The silence was/is deafening.

The death estimates I've read have put Stalin's purge of Ukraine at around 10 million. Move in a few Russians and they become a majority.

[intakexhaust]

Originally Posted by David

If the US was at risk of losing it's only warm water port, we would do the same thing Russia is doing. It's sad that news has become such a big business that it has to make everything sound like the end is near so that we all watch the news to see what happens next.

+1

And we're paying Russia $70 mil per ride to get US astronaut butt's to the ISS. Contract to 2017.