Ukraine Ugly - Page 6

motion · 03-02-2014, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tabs

DEAR MR MOTION, I AM NOT A PARTISAN IDEOLOGUE. My evaluations only speak to the truth of the matter.

Yeah, sure. But, it would be nice to keep this out of PARF. Once in PARF, it will be the domain of about 4 of you.

SilberUrS6 · 03-02-2014, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tabs

DEAR MR MOTION, I AM NOT A PARTISAN IDEOLOGUE. My evaluations only speak to the truth of the matter.

LOL, just LOL.

jpk · 03-02-2014, 02:38 PM

The US is obligated to help Ukraine protect it's sovereignty. Back in 1994, the newly independent Ukraine held the worlds third largest stockpile of Nuclear weapons. The US, UK, Ukraine and, ironically Russia signed the Budapest Memorandum in December of 1994. In exchange for Ukraine agreeing to a nuclear non-proliferation treaty, and subsequently disarming its nuclear weapons, it's territorial sovereignty would be assured. This was later agreed to and signed by both France and China.
If we don't step in and live up to this agreement, what kind of message would that send to Iran and South Korea, who we are also asking to give up their nuclear weapons programs?

widgeon13 · 03-02-2014, 02:41 PM

We're not good at living up to previous commitments.

SilberUrS6 · 03-02-2014, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpk

The US is obligated to help Ukraine protect it's sovereignty. Back in 1994, the newly independent Ukraine held the worlds third largest stockpile of Nuclear weapons. The US, UK, Ukraine and, ironically Russia signed the Budapest Memorandum in December of 1994. In exchange for Ukraine agreeing to a nuclear non-proliferation treaty, and subsequently disarming its nuclear weapons, it's territorial sovereignty would be assured. This was later agreed to and signed by both France and China.
If we don't step in and live up to this agreement, what kind of message would that send to Iran and South Korea, who we are also asking to give up their nuclear weapons programs?

Sweet. Who pays for this? It *is* going to cost real money to do this, so who pays?

Remember, in today's political climate, "credit card" and "more taxes" don't fly. So, where do we get the money for this latest adventure?

nynor · 03-02-2014, 02:44 PM

colonialism of russia?

Shaun @ Tru6 · 03-02-2014, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motion

Do you really think a few thousand flower-bearing young people in Kiev are going to be any sort of opposition for Putin?

Afghanistan.

asymmetry works in their favor.

Terrorism will be brought to Moscow.

tabs · 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6

Sweet. Who pays for this? It *is* going to cost real money to do this, so who pays?

Remember, in today's political climate, "credit card" and "more taxes" don't fly. So, where do we get the money for this latest adventure?

Well ain't this a fine mess that we find ourselves in? That just happens to be one of the reasons as one has recently stated that Putin is able to get away with it. Glad you agree with me...

tabs · 03-02-2014, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

Afghanistan.

asymmetry works in their favor.

Terrorism will be brought to Moscow.

The Ukraine is not Afghanistan...apples to oranges.

motion · 03-02-2014, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

Afghanistan.

asymmetry works in their favor.

Terrorism will be brought to Moscow.

I don't see the Kievans as extremists, so I don't think so. They just want free stuff, like the rest of the West.

SilberUrS6 · 03-02-2014, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tabs

Well ain't this a fine mess that we find ourselves in? That just happens to be one of the reasons as one has recently stated that Putin is able to get away with it.

I have noticed that you didn't actually answer the question. Everybody is so hip on *doing* something.

Cool, let's do that. But first, figure out how to pay for it. Oh, I see, no money left after throwing it all away on other schitt we really didn't need, and lining the pockets of folks who were already pretty well-off to begin with.

Now, all of a sudden, when folks want to get tough, the hard reality hits. No fscking schitt, really? It's not like those of us who can see a little further into the future than 18 months could see this coming. All those folks stamping their feet about "weakness" or whatever else have only themselves to blame for putting us in a position where we can't flex any muscle at all.

So, tabs, you pretend you know stuff. Tell me how this gets paid for, and how you get it past the idiots in D.C. And tell me it would have been any different under some other administration. I dare you.

tabs · 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6

I have noticed that you didn't actually answer the question. Everybody is so hip on *doing* something.

Cool, let's do that. But first, figure out how to pay for it. Oh, I see, no money left after throwing it all away on other schitt we really didn't need, and lining the pockets of folks who were already pretty well-off to begin with.

Now, all of a sudden, when folks want to get tough, the hard reality hits. No fscking schitt, really? It's not like those of us who can see a little further into the future than 18 months could see this coming. All those folks stamping their feet about "weakness" or whatever else have only themselves to blame for putting us in a position where we can't flex any muscle at all.

So, tabs, you pretend you know stuff. Tell me how this gets paid for, and how you get it past the idiots in D.C. And tell me it would have been any different under some other administration. I dare you.

Number one Obama could have saved the cost of a 90 minute phone call to Putin as it was a MISTAKE, which shows weakness as talk is cheap to a man of action like Putin..and Obama should have known it would not have gotten him anywhere.

Since that move of not calling wouldn't cost a dime one could say it was paid for get tough action...

and btw your ravin & ranting...

porwolf · 03-02-2014, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motion

I don't see the Kievans as extremists, so I don't think so. They just want free stuff, like the rest of the West.

But there is a sizeable anti-Russian pro-Nazi group in the Kiev mix:

Shaun @ Tru6 · 03-02-2014, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motion

I don't see the Kievans as extremists, so I don't think so. They just want free stuff, like the rest of the West.

Occupation breeds extremists.

SilberUrS6 · 03-02-2014, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tabs

Number one Obama could have saved the cost of a 90 minute phone call to Putin as it was a MISTAKE, which shows weakness as talk is cheap to a man of action like Putin..and Obama should have known it would not have gotten him anywhere.

Since that move of not calling wouldn't cost a dime one could say it was paid for get tough action...

and btw your ravin & ranting...

So, you didn't answer the question, again. And threw in a little bit of gratuitous ad hominem, and a little bit of ODS.

Nice. So, you don't actually have answers. I didn't think you did. Just another bit of internet whining from another person who doesn't feel his bread has been buttered enough.

Well, tabs, I'll give you the answer you can't seem to screw up the courage to give:

Nothing. That's what will get done in the current climate. No money to actually do anything. No will from ANYONE to actually say the things that need to be said (yes, from ANYONE. Nobody is saying anything worthwhile). And zero will from the shrillest critics to even think about what might be best overall, but mere positioning for political gain.

You've been huffing and puffing about telling the hard truth. LMAO. The hard truth is right up there. You're just being a shill for the whining crowd. I hope you get paid for regurgitating the same crap that's been floating around the internet for days already, because it's already stale, and being to stink a little.

Got anything fresh, or are you going to keep repeating the same crap that's already been offered? Oh, and take a crack at answering my original question, if you can find the courage to do so.

tabs · 03-02-2014, 03:23 PM

As there is in America and in Western Europe.

tabs · 03-02-2014, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6

So, you didn't answer the question, again. And threw in a little bit of gratuitous ad hominem, and a little bit of ODS.

Nice. So, you don't actually have answers. I didn't think you did. Just another bit of internet whining from another person who doesn't feel his bread has been buttered enough.

Well, tabs, I'll give you the answer you can't seem to screw up the courage to give:

Nothing. That's what will get done in the current climate. No money to actually do anything. No will from ANYONE to actually say the things that need to be said (yes, from ANYONE. Nobody is saying anything worthwhile). And zero will from the shrillest critics to even think about what might be best overall, but mere positioning for political gain.

You've been huffing and puffing about telling the hard truth. LMAO. The hard truth is right up there. You're just being a shill for the whining crowd. I hope you get paid for regurgitating the same crap that's been floating around the internet for days already, because it's already stale, and being to stink a little.

Got anything fresh, or are you going to keep repeating the same crap that's already been offered? Oh, and take a crack at answering my original question, if you can find the courage to do so.

You are being a bit emotional and are venting a bit aren't U now?

Shaun @ Tru6 · 03-02-2014, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tabs

The Ukraine is not Afghanistan...apples to oranges.

True, Ukraine is better suited to strike at Russia directly. The Mujahideen couldn't even dream of what Ukrainians can do to Russia today.

SilberUrS6 · 03-02-2014, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tabs

You are being a bit emotional and are venting a bit aren't U now?

Nope, just exposing some self-important drivel for what it really is.

Are you going to answer the original question posed, or continue to try and change the subject?

Seriously, take a crack at it. You pretend to know much, so let's have some of that knowledge laid down so we can all admire it.

SilberUrS6 · 03-02-2014, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

True, Ukraine is better suited to strike at Russia directly. The Mujahideen couldn't even dream of what Ukrainians can do to Russia today.

If they have the will. But Russia may not want to visit the same atrocities on the Ukrainians that the visited upon the Afghans. Maybe they learned something about administering a conquered nation?

Reprisals against whole villages probably won't happen. Or explosives shaped as childrens' toys. Or roving attack helicopters chopping down anyone out and about in an "exclusion zone".