Pats already accused of cheating!

[Z-man]

Originally Posted by BK911

I am a little confused.
Did both teams use the same balls?
Or did the pats get the special balls?

Each team brings their own balls that are inspected by the refs prior to the game start. There are also special balls used for kicking only.

Here's a link to the new article:
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/on-scale-of-1-10--it-s-11-for-patriots-in-deflate-gate-mess---070254658.html

Given that 11 of the 12 Pats balls were under-inflated, this is not an accident - this was a deliberate attempt to gain an unfair advantage - ie they CHEATED, and were caught red-handed yet again.

Originally Posted by sammyg2

Belicheck and Brady are very successful and win allot. That's because they are really good and work really hard.

Some folks tend to hate winners and hate success. They hate winners so badly they make up silly stuff. They make silly claims and silly accusations.

That's cause they are loooooooosers. No offense.

I am a big patriots fan and have been for a long time because they are a class act. And i like winners and winning. I respect and admire winners. As opposed to being JEALOUS of them.

The patriots are the anti-raiders.

The Pats work really hard -- yeah - they work really hard at cheating. They are NOT a class act. Their modus-operandus has always been about cheating.

"So what - they under-inflated the balls a little - what's the big deal?" you may say. Well, at this point, that is the only thing they were caught doing - but who knows what else they did to gain an unfair advantage? If they were willing to deflate the football - rest assured they were doing other illegal activities.

Everyone keeps saying the Colts played so bad that the Pats didn't need to cheat in order to win. Well, consider this: wouldn't a team look like that if the opposing team had their playbook? Had access to the calls on the field? Knew what plays were going to be run before the ball snap? I would not put it past the Pat to have access to that kind of information.

The Pats may win the Superbowl this year, but in my mind, they will always be cheating losers. Pat are a class act? My arse!

Rant over,
-Z

[Eric 951]

Originally Posted by Z-man

The Pats work really hard -- yeah - they work really hard at cheating. They are NOT a class act. Their modus-operandus has always been about cheating.

"So what - they under-inflated the balls a little - what's the big deal?" you may say. Well, at this point, that is the only thing they were caught doing - but who knows what else they did to gain an unfair advantage? If they were willing to deflate the football - rest assured they were doing other illegal activities.


The Pats may win the Superbowl this year, but in my mind, they will always be cheating losers. Pat are a class act? My arse!

-Z

That is the crux of the whole thing--what ELSE are they doing are have done to gain an unfair advantage?

Did they use underinflated balls all year?
Are they still spying on the opposition's practices and walk-throughs?

They have only brought this upon themselves--just like Bonds in baseball, any Pats accomplishment in the "Belicheck era" will have an asterisk attached in the eyes of anyone paying attention.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by Z-man

Each team brings their own balls that are inspected by the refs prior to the game start. There are also special balls used for kicking only.

Here's a link to the new article:
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/on-scale-of-1-10--it-s-11-for-patriots-in-deflate-gate-mess---070254658.html

Given that 11 of the 12 Pats balls were under-inflated, this is not an accident - this was a deliberate attempt to gain an unfair advantage - ie they CHEATED, and were caught red-handed yet again.


The Pats work really hard -- yeah - they work really hard at cheating. They are NOT a class act. Their modus-operandus has always been about cheating.

"So what - they under-inflated the balls a little - what's the big deal?" you may say. Well, at this point, that is the only thing they were caught doing - but who knows what else they did to gain an unfair advantage? If they were willing to deflate the football - rest assured they were doing other illegal activities.

Everyone keeps saying the Colts played so bad that the Pats didn't need to cheat in order to win. Well, consider this: wouldn't a team look like that if the opposing team had their playbook? Had access to the calls on the field? Knew what plays were going to be run before the ball snap? I would not put it past the Pat to have access to that kind of information.

The Pats may win the Superbowl this year, but in my mind, they will always be cheating losers. Pat are a class act? My arse!

Rant over,
-Z

Take a deep breath, now blow it out, think calm thoughts. you gonna be OK?
I've never seen a real live emotional conniption before.

Sorry, but you just blew any chance you ever had at being a Vulcan.

[Z-man]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

Take a deep breath, now blow it out, think calm thoughts. you gonna be OK?
I've never seen a real live emotional conniption before.

Sorry, but you just blew any chance you ever had at being a Vulcan.

Oh - I see - a change in tact. So now instead of defending your fine, upstanding Pats (you can't, since they were caught cheating), you resort to calling me illogical? At least you aren't calling me a poopy-head!

OK - sooo.... here's my prediction for the Superbowl:
Brady will be sacked 4 times.
Brady will be intercepted 2 times.
Seahawks will win. Defense is what wins championships, not deflated footballs!

You a betting man, Sammy?

-Z

[sammyg2]

They both use the same balls, the ones supplied by the home team. if they run out of those or they become unusable, then they get some from the visiting team.

If the patriots had any advantage from the ball being underinflated, then the colts had the exact same asvantage. By definition of they both had it, then neither had an advantage.

Now here's another thing to ask before the tin foil cuts of whatever circulation is left to your head:
How did they get under-inflated? They were checked, they were under control of the refs until the game started, do you really think the ball boys snuck off when none of the hundred thousdand people and dozens of cameras couldn't see them and sneakily let zacky 2 psig out of 11 footballs?
WOW. That's one heck of an imagination.

They were fully inflated and tested prior ot hte game and were found to be within spec.
Then the balls got wet. Really wet.

Those of us with an IQ not on the left side of the bell curve know what happens to leather when it gets wet.

For the rest of you, I'll elaborate (explain). And I'll type slowly.

When leather gets soaked in water, it teds to become softer, more compliant, and stretchable.

If leather was in tension and got soaked, eventually it would give and stretch and the AMOUNT OF TENSION WOULD BE REDUCED.

Either way, it does not matter because both terams played with the same balls. One tram played really well with those footballs, the other stunk up the entire city with therir lackluster performance.

If you really need an excuse to deal with that, get therapy.

From the O'fficial NFL.COM website:
NFL.com Rulebook

Section 2
BALL SUPPLY
Each team will make 12 primary balls available for testing by the Referee two hours and 15 minutes prior to the starting time of
the game to meet League requirements. The home team will also make 12 backup balls available for testing in all
stadiums. In addition, the visitors, at their discretion, may bring 12 backup balls to be tested by the Referee for games
held in outdoor stadiums. For all games, eight new footballs, sealed in a special box and shipped by the manufacturer to
the Referee, will be opened in the officials’ locker room two hours and 15 minutes prior to the starting time of the game.
These balls are to be specially marked by the Referee and used exclusively for the kicking game.
In the event a home team ball does not conform to specifications, or its supply is exhausted, the Referee shall secure a proper
ball from the visitors and, failing that, use the best available ball. Any such circumstances must be reported to the
Commissioner.
In case of rain or a wet, muddy, or slippery field, a playable ball shall be used at the request of the offensive team’s center.
The Game Clock shall not stop for such action (unless undue delay occurs).
Note: It is the responsibility of the home team to furnish playable balls at all times by attendants from either side of the playing
field.

[Eric 951]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

They both use the same balls, the ones supplied by the home tram. if they run out of those or they becomne unusale, then they get some from the visiting team.

If ther patriots had any advantage from the ball being underinflated, then hte colts had the exact same asdvantage. By definition of htey both had it ,then neither had an advantage.

Now here;'s another hting to ask before the tin foil cuts of whatever circulatino is left to yuor head:
How did htey get under-inflated?

They were fully inflated and tested prior ot hte game and were found to be within spec.
Then the balls got wet. Really wet.

Those of us with an IQ not on the left side of the bell curve know what happens to leather when it gets wet.

For the rest of you, I'll elaborate (explain). And I'll type slowly.

When leather gets soaked in water, it teds to become softer, more compliant, and stretchable.

If leather was in tension and got soaked, eventually it would give and stretch and the AMOUNT OF TENSION WOULD BE REDUCED.

Either way, it does not matter because both terams played with the same balls. One tram played really well with those footballs, the other stunk up the entire city with therir lackluster performance.

If you really need an excuse to deal with that, get therapy.

From the O'fficial NFL.COM website:
NFL.com Rulebook

Incorrect--the Pats offense plays with the balls supplied by the Pats

The Colts offense plays with the balls supplied by the Colts.

Both offenses do NOT use the same ball--and it was Colts defender that noticed the ball didn't seem right when he intercepted it and notified the official.

And, the balls are NOT going to lose 2 lbs of pressure due to the wet conditions. The Pats had 11 of their 12 balls underinflated by 2 lbs.

CHEATERS

[J P Stein]

Funny, a highly praised book " Unfair Advantage" is right up there on my list of must reads. Folks get all jacked up about someone applying the same philosophy to a kids game.

I don't know if teams share footballs durring a game.....but I am sure they all use an unfair advantage given the opportinity.

[biosurfer1]

I just don't get it. If the game were decided by 2-3 points, this might matter but the Colts got absolutely murdered out there. No sign of life, not a chance in hell they would have won. They got their asses handed to them and deflated balls did ALL that?!?!?

I'm not a Colts or Pats fan but good god, and people say 49er fans are whiners!

[Deschodt]

Originally Posted by Eric 951

And, the balls are NOT going to lose 2 lbs of pressure due to the wet conditions. The Pats had 11 of their 12 balls underinflated by 2 lbs.

I was gonna ask just that, not wet but cold... "12 primary balls available for testing by the Referee two hours and 15 minutes prior to the starting time "... Seems like if the balls where in a nice warm room (or immediately out thereof) and then they get retested after being played in the *cold*, being pounded, crushed under a pile of players, etc... a 1 or 2lbs loss doesn't seem crazy. But maybe it is, I'm no expert. I know the tires on the side of my car that faces the sun are 2PSI higher than those on the shady side.
That said, who knows... the Pats have a reputation... Do they test balls after each and every game, so we have a refence ? What prompted this test, I'm curious...

[Tobra]

Brett, it is because they cheat to win, not how much they win by. I would be shocked if this was the only cheating they did related to that game.

Bellichek is a cheater, he can't "not" do it, it is who he is. I put liars, thieves and cheats in the same category.

[wdfifteen]

"If you don't cheat, you look like an idiot. If you do it and you don't get caught, you look like a hero. If you do it and get caught, you look like a dope." - Darrell Waltrip
But that's NASCAR.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by biosurfer1

I just don't get it. If the game were decided by 2-3 points, this might matter but the Colts got absolutely murdered out there. No sign of life, not a chance in hell they would have won. They got their asses handed to them and deflated balls did ALL that?!?!?

The needed SOME excuse. Apparently that one sounded good at the time.

[Amail]

Originally Posted by biosurfer1

I just don't get it. If the game were decided by 2-3 points, this might matter but the Colts got absolutely murdered out there. No sign of life, not a chance in hell they would have won. They got their asses handed to them and deflated balls did ALL that?!?!?

I'm not a Colts or Pats fan but good god, and people say 49er fans are whiners!

I get the whole "much ado about nothing" since there's no way underinflated balls could be to blame for the Colts getting *****-slapped, but is it okay to cheat even if it doesn't affect the outcome? What if the differential were 10 points, would it matter then? Heck, what if the Colts won that game, would it still be okay for the Pats to cheat?

I'm a little with Sammy about the question of whether or not anyone really did cheat - I don't know all the facts. But "Did the Pats cheat", "Did any alleged cheating affect the outcome", and "Does it matter if anyone cheated if the outcome were not affected" are separate questions.

[sammyg2]

If the pats played like the jets and rarely made the playoffs, they'd be way more popular.

I don't believe bilicheck had anything at all, not even the tiniest bit of an inkling to do with the balls being underinflated but many here have already tied the noose because that's how the WANT it to be, that's how they'd LIKE it to be.
He is guilty based on the evidence of emotions.

But if it turns out he did I will eat my words. The same as the haters will if it turns out to be nothing.

Either way, the haters will still hate the patriots because they are winners and would still win if they were forced to play with shot puts.

[flskala]

The commish is going to have to throw the book at em... based on what's happened this year already. Get ready for them to lose a draft pick at the very least.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by Z-man

Oh - I see - a change in tact. So now instead of defending your fine, upstanding Pats (you can't, since they were caught cheating), you resort to calling me illogical? At least you aren't calling me a poopy-head!

OK - sooo.... here's my prediction for the Superbowl:
Brady will be sacked 4 times.
Brady will be intercepted 2 times.
Seahawks will win. Defense is what wins championships, not deflated footballs!

You a betting man, Sammy?

-Z

Not a betting man at all, my money is too valuable to gamble with.

I fully expect the sea chickens to beat the patriots.
Offense gets you to the big game, defense wins it. And the S.C.s have a better defense.

That's not what I want to happen but it is what I expect to happen.
All emotions aside.

But that's not the point, is it? Look squirrel.
The point is whether belichick is a cheater.

He believed he was within the rules re:video-taping. The video-tapes were not used during the games. they were studied later. The other teams had the opportunity to change the signals between games.

[14] Page 105 of the 2007 NFL Game Operations Manual states, "No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game...All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead."[16] Belichick stated that he believed that if footage so collected was not used during the game, its collection was legal, as the NFL Constitution and Bylaws stipulate that "...any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited...including without limitation...any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game

Later the NFL changed the rules to state:

"videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game."

BTW, do you know that all teams in the NFL study audio recordings of the opposing quarterback's cadence and play-calling on the field and compare that to the actual plays called? Every one of em.
How is that any different? It isn't. How is it legal? The quarterbacks change the way they call plays during and between the games. Just like the 3rd base coach mixes up his signals in baseball.

[chapo]

The refs spot the ball on the line of scrimmage on every play, every down. They pick the ball up after every out of bounds, incomplete, etc. no ref complained during those times. Apperently, now the balls were only used for the first half. I wanted the Cplts to win badly, the balls had no effect on the games outcome. As I have stated before, I have had refs tell me in the game " give me another ball this one doesn't feel right" or " put a little more air in this one". No cheating, just happens.

[flipper35]

The Pack beat the Pats so I am happy.

[Dansvan]

Could the air pressure gauge they used be faulty? Ie dropped as the ball guy was inflating the balls. Might explain the consistency. Much ado about nothing.

[yazhound]

Horse does not change spots. Cheating a little or a lot is still cheating. However, Belichek is extremely smart (1600 SAT), speaks a cpl languages, and around football his whole life. His schemes and ability to adapt are what wins games. How much his shady bending of rules helps is a speculative matter.

I think the Seahawks best chance of beating Pats now. Earlier in season, Pats much more vulnerable. Seahawks match up well, and play with passion. Wilson at ease when chips are down. Brady is too unless he is getting hit, and loses the pocket. Seattle plays its game they win. Let Brady get comfortable for any stretch the Pats win.