Pats already accused of cheating!

[BeyGon]

When compared with other sports Smokey Yunick, although good for his time was a beginner.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by J P Stein

Funny, a highly praised book " Unfair Advantage" is right up there on my list of must reads. Folks get all jacked up about someone applying the same philosophy to a kids game.

I don't know if teams share footballs durring a game.....but I am sure they all use an unfair advantage given the opportinity.

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

"If you don't cheat, you look like an idiot. If you do it and you don't get caught, you look like a hero. If you do it and get caught, you look like a dope." - Darrell Waltrip
But that's NASCAR.

I don't condone cheating but lets be real guys and gals... cheating runs through all sports... and all the way down to collage... even high school...

Heck even academic students get caught cheating so it is not necessarily even a sports thing.

And bankers/businessmen/lawyers... we all know they would never cheat!

[widebody911]

[chapo]

The whole reason Pete Carroll is in the NFL is because of his cheating at USC. Left the place a mess, forfeited a season of wins, a Heisman, a National Championship, loss of scholarships etc. At Seattle how many of the secondary failed ped tests? Also the most penalized team on NFL. Guess cheaters DO win. Don't like either team

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by chapo

The whole reason Pete Carroll is in the NFL is because of his cheating at USC. Left the place a mess, forfeited a season of wins, a Heisman, a National Championship, loss of scholarships etc. At Seattle how many of the secondary failed ped tests? Also the most penalized team on NFL. Guess cheaters DO win. Don't like either team

Well... there is that I like Pete so I didn't want to bring it up... but yeah, he left USC like he was running out of a burning building.

I don't have a dog in this fight... I prefer the Pats but I won't be surprised if the Hawks win.

[Z-man]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

If the pats played like the jets and rarely made the playoffs, they'd be way more popular.

I don't believe bilicheck had anything at all, not even the tiniest bit of an inkling to do with the balls being underinflated but many here have already tied the noose because that's how the WANT it to be, that's how they'd LIKE it to be.
He is guilty based on the evidence of emotions.

But if it turns out he did I will eat my words. The same as the haters will if it turns out to be nothing.

Either way, the haters will still hate the patriots because they are winners and would still win if they were forced to play with shot puts.

How do you like your words seasoned? Salty or sweet?!?

Just quoting you here so that you can't backtrack...

And tell ya what Mr. Smarty-pants -- Here's what I'm gonna do -- if Bellicheck AND the Pats are in the clear and it is proven that deflate-gate was just a punch of hot air (pun intended), I will meet up with you Sammy - and we'll find a nice Pats-friendly pub or eatery, and the meal & first beer's on me!

Deal?
-Z

[BeyGon]

Right now you look pretty safe on that.

[targa911S]

So corking bats in baseball, loaded gloves in boxing and hiding fuel in NASCAR are OK now? Cheating is cheating....

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

The needed SOME excuse. Apparently that one sounded good at the time.

Patrick, we can put you down for cheating is okay, because that is what you are saying. How does it feel to agree with Sammy?

[Nate2046]

I'd like to make one small point in this whole issue. I am a huge Colts fan, I live in Indianapolis, almost all of our friends here are Colts fans. I can tell you that I haven't heard a single Colts fan say that Deflategate was the reason for our team losing the game. As embarrassing as that loss was, we realize that we were dominated by a far superior team. So, please stop characterizing this as 'whining' from the losers.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by Nate2046

I'd like to make one small point in this whole issue. I am a huge Colts fan, I live in Indianapolis, almost all of our friends here are Colts fans. I can tell you that I haven't heard a single Colts fan say that Deflategate was the reason for our team losing the game. As embarrassing as that loss was, we realize that we were dominated by a far superior team. So, please stop characterizing this as 'whining' from the losers.

Thank you!

I think many here (and elsewhere) are looking right past the 'accused' part of the thread title.

It is the super bowl, the hype has begun... if making the Pats out to be cheaters will get a little more air time so be it.

[Eric 951]

New reports that the Ravens tipped the Colts that the Pats may be using under-inflated balls. Their game was a lot closer than the Colts blow-out. Could the balls have affected the outcome of that game?

If the balls were under-inflated, there is no way that Brady wouldn't know(and probably Belicheck too).

But, after getting caught red-handed with tapes and the light punishment received from the Spygate fiasco, the Pats probably figured, if that's the worst the NFL will do when caught taping practices, then why not cheat in other respects--what's the worst that could happen.

[yazhound]

Originally Posted by Eric 951

New reports that the Ravens tipped the Colts that the Pats may be using under-inflated balls. Their game was a lot closer than the Colts blow-out. Could the balls have affected the outcome of that game?

If the balls were under-inflated, there is no way that Brady wouldn't know(and probably Belicheck too).

But, after getting caught red-handed with tapes and the light punishment received from the Spygate fiasco, the Pats probably figured, if that's the worst the NFL will do when caught taping practices, then why not cheat in other respects--what's the worst that could happen.

... and a potential loss of draft pick will not be as detrimental to the Pats as others. Say what you will, Belichek knows how get make what he has work.... now creating a more NCAA like punishment.. (no Super Bowl no playoffs next year etc...) would have a much greater affect. Fines don't seem a problem either...

[yazhound]

Originally Posted by afgdg

If a ball is not deflated enough to tell by touch then does it really have that much of an affect?

Try it yourself... better grip in the rain for a QB and/or receiver might be the difference on converting a cpl 3rd downs. While it didnt matter against Colts, never know when need to keep momentum alive. Pats had no idea what kind of game it was going to be when they deflated the balls. Ha - they planned ahead.

[biosurfer1]

Originally Posted by Tobra

Brett, it is because they cheat to win, not how much they win by. I would be shocked if this was the only cheating they did related to that game.

I understand but you're kidding yourself if you think the Colts, and every other NFL for that matter, aren't cheating in one way or another during every single game. Trying to steal the other teams play calling, throwing cheap shots at other players in the bottom of the pile, chop blocks, fake injuries....the list goes on and on.

Hell, technically every flag thrown during the game is a team not playing by the rules, so how is that not just a form of the team cheating 10-20+ times a game??

[Z-man]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/did-ravens-tip-off-colts-about-patriots-deflating-balls--021046443.html

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by Eric 951

New reports that the Ravens tipped the Colts that the Pats may be using under-inflated balls. Their game was a lot closer than the Colts blow-out. Could the balls have affected the outcome of that game?

If the balls were under-inflated, there is no way that Brady wouldn't know(and probably Belicheck too).

So... now the Colts knew the balls were underinflated but did nothing about it?

This is starting to sound, more and more like national enquirer stuff!

"The Pats had invisible alien UFO's altering the gravity on the field!!!!" or maybe they kidnaped 'bat boy' and threatened to do him in if the Colts didn't throw the game?

[Z-man]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

So... now the Colts knew the balls were underinflated but did nothing about it?

This is starting to sound, more and more like national enquirer stuff!

"The Pats had invisible alien UFO's altering the gravity on the field!!!!" or maybe they kidnaped 'bat boy' and threatened to do him in if the Colts didn't throw the game?

When the Colts got their hands on the ball (ie: the interception in the 2nd quarter), that's when they brought their concerns to the attention of the refs. That makes sense - otherwise what are they going to say, "Hey - the Ravens - the team that was beat by the Pats last week - told us the balls are under-inflated." That wouldn't go over too well with the refs...

-Z

[Eric 951]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

So... now the Colts knew the balls were underinflated but did nothing about it?

They did. When they had their interceptions in the first half--they gave both balls(Pats offensive balls) to their equip manager--then all balls (both Pats and Colts) were tested at the half--the Pats had 11 of 12 underinflated, the Colts had 0 of 12.

Not that it would have mattered in this game since the Pats clearly out-played the Colts, but it raises the following

1. In a closer game would it have mattered?(see Ravens)

2. Have the Pats been doing this all season? In past seasons?

3. If the Pats are willing to do this, what else are they doing to CHEAT?

Someone in the Pats organization knowingly and willingly CHEATED, but I guess that is okay since it was only deflating footballs, and hey, everyone cheats, so it is okay so long as you win, and cheating to this degree is acceptable.

[matt f]

Pats score 17 points in 1st half with Brady's special deflated ball.
Pats score 28 points in 2nd half with proper ball.

Colts shouldn't have said a thing.

Cheating sucks, but Greg (Descholt) made a great point earlier.
After every game, are all balls checked for any deviation from normal regarding AP and weight?
Having a baseline for deviation would put to rest a lot of this controversy.

If anyone associated w the Pats did this, punishment should be swift and severe.
Monetary fines don't hurt the owners or coach. Perhaps a $100million fine might, and it would have to be that severe to even elicit any pain from an owner. Most are billionaires, so maybe more draconian measures are needed.
Organization suspended for a year? That would also penalize the teams they play financially.
Loss of draft picks may hurt. It would have to be many early rounders over several years. But Brady was a 6th round pick and I don't know how many Pats starters are early round picks or were from trades or a later round pick that was developed over time.


Interesting 10 days until the game.
I don't believe anything will be done until after the Super Bowl.

Matt