Attic insulation quote

[sammyg2]

Got a quote from abig box store for insulation and of course it was expensive, but it raised some questions:

The quote was 2 parts:

1st was adding more insulation to the attic. I have about R18 now and they quoted to take it to R38 which seems like over-kill.
Price quoted was just under a dollar per sq. foot for blown in fiberglass. Seems a little higher that I'd like.

2nd part of the quote was for a product called HEATBLOC ULTRA.
HeatBLOC - High-Efficiency Attic Heat Barrier
it's an aluminized paint they spray on the underside of the roof and it is supposed to refract the heat back up through the roof to keep the attic cooler.
High pressure sales techniques, as if it is a gotta-do thing.
I was instantly skeptical.

Questions I brought up: does it cook the roofing materials? They say no.
Does it trap moisture in the roof reducing the life? They said no.
If i have plenty of attic insulation and proper attic ventillation, does that silver stuff really make any significant difference? crickets chirping.


Price quoted was about $1.25 sq. foot applied (spray painted).
I checked e-bay, the stuff costs $60 per gallon and covers 400 to 500 sq feet per gallon.
That means that about 6 gallons would easily do the job at my house.
The manufacturer website says 1 person can cover 1000 sq feet an hour.
Assuming they work in pairs, I can't see more than 4 man-hours max, plus $360 worth of material.

But they quoted 4 times that much.

Questions:
How much should it cost to take the attic insulation from R18 to R38 (good attic access, 4-12 pitch).

How much blown in insulation do I really need before diminishing returns makes it over-kill (Orange county, 15 miles from ocean).


Does that painted aluminum stuff really make a difference, is it worth it, does it hurt the roof, and what should it really cost?

Tanks in advance.

[Nickshu]

While I don't have any answers for you I can tell you that I had a quote from Home Depot to do blow-in insulation in my garage attic about 3 years ago, they were almost 2x higher than a local insulation company for the same product. Local insulation guy told me HD pays their contractors the going rate, then taps their cut on top of it. Basically using the local guy cut out the middleman (HD). I had the work done and also did the cellulose/water mix blown into each run of the walls. Idiot builder drywalled both my garages and "forgot" to insulate underneath. I've been very happy with the results. Have since installed furnaces in both garages, they run very little as a result.

[911SauCy]

I just had my attic insulated but the differences in climate from CT to Orange County make all the difference in response.

My house was built in '58, had R-4 equivalent existing, and 18"+ tall ice dams because the soffits weren't vented and we were heating the attic.

For a 1200sqft job, they had 3 guys work all day building 600sf of flooring, a retaining barrier around said flooring to hold the insulation (R-38) back, installed the proper vents in the soffits, and made some awesome foam attic stair entry thing with removable door.... I laid out $3100, but we got an "energy tax credit" for $1/sf, so total outlay after credit was $1900.

Between this and a home energy audit, my investment will pay for itself in 17 months. The day the job was complete our upstairs was remarkably warmer and the thermostat was turned down 4 degrees as the house managed to remain at 66 without continual help from the furnace.

Mind you, this is in an opposite environment...

Perhaps the HeatBLOC stuff is your better bet altogether?

FWIW, R-38 is standard building code here in CT, so not really overkill.

[VincentVega]

I've installed blow in cellulose and fiberglass, both are simple with cellulose being a little messier. If you have access and a helper to load the machine there is no reason why you cant do this in a couple hours at most for most homes. I have no experience with spray on coatings.

[ckelly78z]

Before I saw this chart above ^^^^ I was going to say that the only place I would need R38 insulation is in the arctic. I've always thought that in a climate that has a bonafied 4 seasons, R-24-R-28 was good enough.

The spray on reflective paint seems like a gimic if the silver is on the inside of the roof , it would reflect the heat already in the attic back towards the ceiling, and honestly, in an unheated and unlit (by sunshine) attic, I don't know that it would do anything but lift the hundred dollar bills from your wallet.

I rented an insulation blower from Lowes, and for a couple $100 bucks, and one afternoon, my son and I did my entire upstairs attic on a 2000 sq ft house. Yes, it was messy, but it sounds like I saved a couple thousand doing it myself.

[Christien]

Originally Posted by ckelly78z

I rented an insulation blower from Lowes, and for a couple $100 bucks, and one afternoon, my son and I did my entire upstairs attic on a 2000 sq ft house. Yes, it was messy, but it sounds like I saved a couple thousand doing it myself.

My wife and I did exactly that. We were quoted almost $4000 to remove old insulation (had a coon in there years ago and didn't want any leftover coon poop) and blow in new. We chopped a zero off that by DIYing, and noticed a 5 degree difference immediately (it was late November and just above freezing). Best $400 we ever spent on our house.

[look 171]

In OC, it really don't matter if its R30 or 38. I like 38, overkill, but not necessary. We do not have extreme cold or heat around here, I would have them drag in fiberglass batts and install it up there and be done with it. How old is the house? you build a tight attic, but the rest of the house leaks so you win some and lose some. Not a big deal IMO.

[sammyg2]

House was built in late 60's, I've replaced all glass with double-pane windows and sealed the house up fairly tight (for so Cal).
Note i'm not going for a big energy savings here, just want to make the house more comfortable.

The thermostat is in the living room and with the fire place and 8' slider, it's the worst-insulated room.
That messes with the bedrooms etc because that end of the house is always too hot or too cold.

Also the wife had non-IC canned lights installed 5 years ago in the kitchen and living room. They suck. Big holes in the ceiling is all they are.

This weekend I'm going to install LED conversion kits that will seal up the cans to the attic and ceiling and will change them to IC rating.
That'll make a big difference.
As much as I hate being forced into the darned overpriced-tree-hugger-hippie LED craze, it makes sense in this case.

[VincentVega]

seal up the cans to the attic and ceiling and will change them to IC rating.
That'll make a big difference.

I built boxes around the cans I could get to in the attic and sealed everything up, I think that really helps. LED's make sense if you leave the lights on all the time and find a light color you like. Some lights are blueish, not worth any every savings in my book.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

House was built in late 60's, I've replaced all glass with double-pane windows and sealed the house up fairly tight (for so Cal).
Note i'm not going for a big energy savings here, just want to make the house more comfortable.

The thermostat is in the living room and with the fire place and 8' slider, it's the worst-insulated room.
That messes with the bedrooms etc because that end of the house is always too hot or too cold.

Also the wife had non-IC canned lights installed 5 years ago in the kitchen and living room. They suck. Big holes in the ceiling is all they are.

This weekend I'm going to install LED conversion kits that will seal up the cans to the attic and ceiling and will change them to IC rating.
That'll make a big difference.
As much as I hate being forced into the darned overpriced-tree-hugger-hippie LED craze, it makes sense in this case.

IC cans does not mean heat do not escape up through it. It only means the heat form the lamp doesn't go through and cause the insulation to burn. More often, people build or enclose then in drywall or we call it blocking it off form insulation. A none IC can an be installed if it sits 3" (coming off memory here) away from insulation, per code. LED lights / cans do not need to be IC rated. They run cool. That in itself, will keep your house much cooler. Sealing up the gaps around the can will help, but I often question how much since we live in such great climate. Homes from the 60s should have exterior walls insulated. I am not sure if additional insulation in the attic will help all that much?

Tell me more about your HVAC system. The combination of registers and placement of return air has much to do with keep the whole house balanced. Often, having two return air will help solve the issue you maybe having. Again, I need to know the general layout. An attic fan might help in the sumer month. Are the ceiling vaulted? Hot air can be trapped there causing hell in the summer time.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by VincentVega

I built boxes around the cans I could get to in the attic and sealed everything up, I think that really helps. LED's make sense if you leave the lights on all the time and find a light color you like. Some lights are blueish, not worth any every savings in my book.

True. I really wide they make a 2850K light instead of 2700. Most people seem to like that white light. The 3000k and up. I hear that mfg are thinking about not making a 2700k lamp in the future so everything will look like an office. 3000k seem to be the standard. People seem to not like the yellowish of the incandescent light:roll eyes: like their headlights. White is best so it seems.

[VincentVega]

Yep, light color depends on many things. Personal preference, location, ambient light, even the colors in the room impact the results. Spending a mint on new LED inserts/bulbs might feel good but the math doesnt work in many cases and the end result might be a light you dont like. Buyer beware.

[rfuerst911sc]

I have not heard of the reflective paint but I do know about reflective foil and it works you might want to look into that. I'm about to install it in my detached garage attic. I purchased 4 ' wide rolls it gets stapled to the bottom of the roof trusses that meet the roof deck. So as an example if your rafters are 2 x 4 you have a 3.5 " air gap from the face of the foil to the backside of the roof deck. With good roof and soffit vents it supposedly gets rid of 97 % of heat transfer from the hot roof and no it doesn't cook your shingles. Another way to install it is on top of the insulation. In regards to attic insulation R38 is not too much and is an easy DIY project if you choose to do so. Home Depot , Lowes and others rent the machine and the insulation. I prefer the fiberglass vs. the cellulose but both work fine. Good luck with your project.

[look 171]

Rigid foam insulation is more efficient if they can place between the rafters. 4" thick is not cheap but works really well. Last I hear is that blown in insulation is no longer legal in LA, don't know about OC? We never install that stuff. architect always spec out batts over between joist.

[Dantilla]

Originally Posted by Nickshu

Home Depot .... they were almost 2x higher than a local insulation company for the same product. Local insulation guy told me HD pays their contractors the going rate, then taps their cut on top of it.

This^

Never have a big-box store install anything.

Need insulation? Call an insulation company. They can be in and out so quickly, for about the same price as what you pay for the material alone at retail prices.

Need a sheet or two of plywood? And have your own truck? Big box has what you need, for similar prices as the lumber yard where the contractors go.

[masraum]

A few years back, the missus scoured Angie's list for contractors and contacted 3-5 for quotes of various stuff. The quotes for blown in insulation, plus tunnels that went out by the edges of the roof to make sure the air from the soffit venting wasn't blocked and in some cases, vents that ran all of the way up the underside of the roof and/or the heat block paint were, IIRC $650-950. The house was 1950sqft, but a 2 story, so probably 900-950' of roof space. We also got extra quotes for solar powered attic fans.

I didn't like the idea of the blown in insulation for several reasons, the main reason being it would suck if I ever had to get up there and they indiscriminatelyspray that crap everywhere. I ended up spending about $450 on some insulation from lowes. It was R25 and was in a tube of the thin plastic (but perforated). Because of the plastic, it was pretty much a breeze to install (other than being darn hot and tight in our attic). I think we had made the cost of the stuff back in less than a year (I kept a spreadsheet of our bills, and saw some months that were as much as $100 cheaper). It was 2 days of my time crawling around in the attic sweating like a pig, but I was happy with the job and would do it again. Hell, I wish I'd done it years ago, and had decided to do it in Feb or Mar instead of May.

I would happily use an insulation place, but I would never use a big box place. We used them years and years ago for our garage doors. They did a total crap job. They set up the sensors incorrectly (2 doors side by side need the sensors installed a specific way). They didn't adjust the doors for the pressure sensors to work correctly which caused some issues over the years and was nearly a pain when we sold. Using them was definitely a mistake. I figured "how bad could they screw it up, it's just garage doors". Yeah, I was very naive!

[john70t]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

The thermostat is in the living room and with the fire place and 8' slider, it's the worst-insulated room.
That messes with the bedrooms etc because that end of the house is always too hot or too cold.

I have the same situation.

So far I have only re-located the thermostat to the non-drafty hall with a more stable heat range. There are plastic boxes/covers for thermostats to reduce the furnace cycling.

I did get an energy audit done with a door blower and thermo camera. Pretty comprehensive stuff. A Harbor freight infrared surface thermometer works for the basic.

Another thing I have yet to do is pump slow-fill foam insulation into the walls. Even with existing batt in there, this stuff seals up the voids and eliminates external drafts.

For the worst walls and direct transfer: there is also the option of adding a reflective barrier and re-skinning with 3/8ths drywall, but that would be a mess.

[john70t]

Forget the paint. If the attic is getting too hot, consider a spinner vent or attic fan.
Use lighter shingles next time around.
You can even paint the top of the roof white if it is not visible.

[GWN7]

When my son bought his house there was 0 insulation in the attic. He found that out when he got his first winter heat bill of $650. The next spring I drove to Menards and bought their cellulose insulation which was almost a 1/3 the cost of buying local. Rented the blower machine from the local Home Depot and two days later his attic was R60. There was enough insulation left to do my garage 24" deep. Go big or go home.

No idea about the paint, but how can it reflect heat out from under the shingles and roof material?

[gshase]

I own a spray foam insulation business we started in 1999. I work with the fiberglass guys. You are getting a quote for an r20. I sell (quote) for a fiberglass buddy @ $.50 for a r 30. Your Radiant Barrier Price is high from what I have seen. I have checked many attics with a I.R. thermometer and never see much of a drop with the spray on RB. The plywood backed will lower the surface temp 35 degrees. Foam could be applied @ $1.25 and it works in the summer and the winter. Shop around.


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