Fathers matter

[Oh Haha]

Originally Posted by Baz

I think the topic here is not what children do.

It's what adults do. In particular FATHERS.




Does anything think morality is important in maintaining a family unit?

I asked this question earlier but never got an answer.

The definition (again) of morality is:

Principles concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behavior


If a FATHER has MORALS.......does he make babies and leave them?

My answer is no, he does NOT leave them.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by foxpaws

Maybe we should sterilize them? not sure where you are headed with this...

Free tube tie with first welfare check and free reversal with last?
Loss of benefits with a "+" test?
Hmm...
Government money = Government rules.
(I'll wear that eugenic hat under the tinfoil one btw.)

Mother nature used to let most unsupportable babies languish to die slowly and painfully, so not having them in the first place is rather benign and humane.

With the father awol for whatever reason, most times the decision whether to keep the baby falls back to the mother of the teenage mom.
Benefits in place? Check.
Culturally acceptable? Check.
Proceed with single parent birth.

Josie Cunningham launches new dating site for girls 'to get pregnant and live off benefits' | Showbiz News | Closer Online
'She told The Sun: "People will think I'm promoting unprotected sex so women can get pregnant, bag themselves a council house and have a life on benefits.
But it's really no different to what many have one nights stands for on Saturday night."'

[Rikao4]

most of the father's your talking about...
are doing what their fathers did..
nothing...

Rika

[Oh Haha]

22 kids by 17 different women?!!!!! WTF?

16 women had sex with him knowing(maybe) that he had all those other kids?

I just cannot fathom this.

We have 2 kids that cost us a bundle. That guy in the first video couldn't even begin to pay child support! He would have a negative balance every month.

[Taz's Master]

foxpaws, I tell kids the three things you can do for yourself to promote financial security are: #1 don't have children out of wedlock, #2 don't go to jail, #3 don't get divorced. You are saying I have this backwards, that poverty causes those behaviors, and not that those behaviors contribute to poverty?

[Rikao4]

well one and two are a bad idea if your poor to begin with..
and if you ignore those two...
number 3 will probably not ever be an issue....
seriously..
who wants / keeps a car that's been a rental most of its life..

Rika

[foxpaws]

Originally Posted by Taz's Master

foxpaws, I tell kids the three things you can do for yourself to promote financial security are: #1 don't have children out of wedlock, #2 don't go to jail, #3 don't get divorced. You are saying I have this backwards, that poverty causes those behaviors, and not that those behaviors contribute to poverty?

All I am saying is that it is a 2 sided coin - everyone here seems to be only interested in one side.

It is very difficult to break the cycle of unmarried teenaged moms. They are very likely to have mothers who were also unmarried teenaged moms. They have grown up in poverty situations, and, probably haven't had very good opportunities for school or good role models. Cycles like this are very difficult to break.

However, mostly I was incensed by POPs and John70Ts rather inane comments on the subject and wished to draw attention to their lack of understanding when it comes to the plight of teenage pregnancy. Their broad brush painting of all women as evil 'out to get back at their man, and take him for all he is worth' needed to be addressed. That is usually hardly the case when it comes to teenaged pregnancies. They drug the OPs concern (absent fathers) into their problem with women, that the fathers were absent because the evil moms drove them away, taking all the father's money, and denying him access to the kids (this sounds more like suburban strife than poverty reality). However, in the case of teenaged pregnancy - that is often not the case, fathers are usually absent for the reasons I stated, that they are in jail, or are deadbeat dads. Teen pregnancy is mostly a poverty problem, yes, exacerbated by absent fathers, but, the reasons the fathers aren't around isn't because the mom is taking all their money, otherwise it wouldn't be a poverty problem.

[Taz's Master]

Originally Posted by foxpaws

All I am saying is that it is a 2 sided coin - everyone here seems to be only interested in one side.

It is very difficult to break the cycle of unmarried teenaged moms. They are very likely to have mothers who were also unmarried teenaged moms. They have grown up in poverty situations, and, probably haven't had very good opportunities for school or good role models. Cycles like this are very difficult to break.

However, mostly I was incensed by POPs and John70Ts rather inane comments on the subject and wished to draw attention to their lack of understanding when it comes to the plight of teenage pregnancy. Their broad brush painting of all women as evil 'out to get back at their man, and take him for all he is worth' needed to be addressed. That is usually hardly the case when it comes to teenaged pregnancies. They drug the OPs concern (absent fathers) into their problem with women, that the fathers were absent because the evil moms drove them away, taking all the father's money, and denying him access to the kids (this sounds more like suburban strife than poverty reality). However, in the case of teenaged pregnancy - that is often not the case, fathers are usually absent for the reasons I stated, that they are in jail, or are deadbeat dads. Teen pregnancy is mostly a poverty problem, yes, exacerbated by absent fathers, but, the reasons the fathers aren't around isn't because the mom is taking all their money, otherwise it wouldn't be a poverty problem.

EVERY male should look at the statistics in the OP. It is not just about poverty. If a man is going to have sex with a woman he needs to give thought to the consequences (and there are two sides to that coin as well). I cannot end poverty or unwed mothers, but I can decide not to give my offspring such a statistical disadvantage. Caring for and showing compassion to those who endure such a disadvantage is commendable, but pretending that their mothers and fathers are not responsible for what they do to those children is not.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by Baz

For those who feel poverty is the biggest issue involved........

Poverty is a consequence, not a cause.

Originally Posted by Baz

If a FATHER has MORALS.......does he make babies and leave them?

No, he does not.

There is a cash incentive for him to do so though, so thank you for that, people that think like Princess Prevarication.

Originally Posted by Taz's Master

foxpaws, I tell kids the three things you can do for yourself to promote financial security are: #1 don't have children out of wedlock, #2 don't go to jail, #3 don't get divorced. You are saying I have this backwards, that poverty causes those behaviors, and not that those behaviors contribute to poverty?

Read this again, Princess, but add another one, graduate from high school before you start having children.

These are ALL choices made, not socioeconomic situations.

[Baz]

Parents.com has a worksheet that helps a person figure out if they can afford having a child and all that goes with it - including a parent that stays home while the other works.....

Stay At Home Calculator

[Baz]

Here's another one:

Can I afford to have a baby? | BabyCenter

[Baz]

Regardless of the hows, whens, who's, and wheres of the baby being born.......once that baby is born the father needs to man up and stick around. And BE a father.

[Oh Haha]

Those worksheets should be mandatory for all kids in 6th grade. Obviously, 6th graders probably have no income but maybe putting the costs of a baby down in writing would encourage better life choices.

Probably pie in the sky thinking but still....

[Baz]

Originally Posted by Oh Haha

Those worksheets should be mandatory for all kids in 6th grade. Obviously, 6th graders probably have no income but maybe putting the costs of a baby down in writing would encourage better life choices.

Probably pie in the sky thinking but still....

I'm wondering why this type of survival training isn't discussed every evening on these news analysis programs.

Or on the daytime talk shows (not that I ever watch those).

It's an embarrassment and says a lot about our society that this issue does not get more attention and focus.

[foxpaws]

Originally Posted by Baz

I'm wondering why this type of survival training isn't discussed every evening on these news analysis programs.

Or on the daytime talk shows (not that I ever watch those).

It's an embarrassment and says a lot about our society that this issue does not get more attention and focus.

Wow - do any of you ever go into poverty areas, or work with teenaged girls -

work sheets - really - and they don't watch TV - how 2000 is that?

As I said, our teenaged pregnancy rate is down, markedly. 50% from the high in 1990, and even in the years from 2010 - 2012 it was down 15%. What seems to be the real factors, using birth control, and overall access to medical care.

Having fathers present is of course where everyone would like this to end, but, that is a difficult nut to crack. You can't force guys to stick around, and in the case of impoverished families, there are many reasons you might not want the father around (heck there are probably plenty of cases where having the mom around isn't a great idea either). Giving out free birth control, much easier, and hopefully, as those teenaged girls who aren't getting pregnant, they break the cycle of teenaged motherhood. This seems to be the case as we see the results of the first round of decreases in teenaged pregnancy in the 90s. They will have more opportunities, will stay in school longer, get out of impoverished areas, and maybe wait to have kids until they are married, and know the father will stick around.

And for all of you who don't think that behavior and environment aren't closely tied together, well, I guess you don't live in Watts.

[Oh Haha]

No, I don't work with teenage girls and I don't visit impoverished areas. What I CAN do is my best to teach MY kids how making the right choices in life can be beneficial. My wife and I agree and work as a team, btw.

We are not rich and live in a pretty blue collar city(near Flint) so I am exposed to folks fitting the demographic.

I see poverty in kids that attend the same school as mine. I also see some of those same parents having expensive habits(tattoos, the latest cell phone, etc.) As much as I would like to share my opinion on how they are doing wrong by their kids, it isn't my place and would only create a hostile environment. I had several kids open up to me last year about how their Dad's never around or their Mom's boyfriend doesn't like them. I didn't discuss getting pregnant because they were in 5th grade and it would have been a serious problem with the school had I done so.

[Oh Haha]

I am going to ask our school superintendent what our district does to teach students about sex education. Maybe I can get a conversation started on how to help the kids in our district.

[McLovin]

Mothers AND fathers matter.

Look at any statistics.

If a child grows up in a family with his or her biological mother and father, that's the hugest advantage a child can have.

He or see is statistically FAR more likely to:

Not be imprisoned later in life.
Not be in poverty.
Not be an unwed mother or father.
Not be on welfare.
Not die a violent death.
Not be divorced.
Not be on drugs or alcohol.

The list goes on.

The breakdown of the family in our "modern" society is our single biggest problem. From it, so much bad stems.

[Taz's Master]

Originally Posted by foxpaws

Wow - do any of you ever go into poverty areas, or work with teenaged girls -

work sheets - really - and they don't watch TV - how 2000 is that?

As I said, our teenaged pregnancy rate is down, markedly. 50% from the high in 1990, and even in the years from 2010 - 2012 it was down 15%. What seems to be the real factors, using birth control, and overall access to medical care.

Having fathers present is of course where everyone would like this to end, but, that is a difficult nut to crack. You can't force guys to stick around, and in the case of impoverished families, there are many reasons you might not want the father around (heck there are probably plenty of cases where having the mom around isn't a great idea either). Giving out free birth control, much easier, and hopefully, as those teenaged girls who aren't getting pregnant, they break the cycle of teenaged motherhood. This seems to be the case as we see the results of the first round of decreases in teenaged pregnancy in the 90s. They will have more opportunities, will stay in school longer, get out of impoverished areas, and maybe wait to have kids until they are married, and know the father will stick around.

And for all of you who don't think that behavior and environment aren't closely tied together, well, I guess you don't live in Watts.

If you believe that going to Watts and distributing free birth control is the most effective way to keep any of my female progeny from getting pregnant in their teens, we will simply disagree.

The OP clearly shows how the behavior of teenage females is closely tied to the environment in which they are raised, maybe we don't disagree as much as I thought.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by foxpaws

Wow - do any of you ever go into poverty areas, or work with teenaged girls -

work sheets - really - and they don't watch TV - how 2000 is that?

As I said, our teenaged pregnancy rate is down, markedly. 50% from the high in 1990, and even in the years from 2010 - 2012 it was down 15%. What seems to be the real factors, using birth control, and overall access to medical care.

Having fathers present is of course where everyone would like this to end, but, that is a difficult nut to crack. You can't force guys to stick around, and in the case of impoverished families, there are many reasons you might not want the father around (heck there are probably plenty of cases where having the mom around isn't a great idea either). Giving out free birth control, much easier, and hopefully, as those teenaged girls who aren't getting pregnant, they break the cycle of teenaged motherhood. This seems to be the case as we see the results of the first round of decreases in teenaged pregnancy in the 90s. They will have more opportunities, will stay in school longer, get out of impoverished areas, and maybe wait to have kids until they are married, and know the father will stick around.

And for all of you who don't think that behavior and environment aren't closely tied together, well, I guess you don't live in Watts.

Yeah...give 'em pills.......because they are too stupid to learn from a worksheet.



I got it now.....