Ali is on life support

[URY914]

Another view point...............


Muhammad Ali No Hero, Just a Hypocrite, for Dodging Draft - Breitbart

[black73]

Not everyone has to be a warrior to be of value.

[74-911]

Originally Posted by fintstone

..... there were plenty of legitimate ways to get a deferral (education for example) which postponed competing in the draft or medical (if a physical problem)....

The draft in the Vietnam era was the most illogical, corrupt, unfair system that could have devised by a bunch of bureaucrats. Yes, the rich, famous and connected were seldom if ever drafted but they avoided the draft under the radar, not by publicly refusing to be drafted and suffering the consequences of that decision. I have tremendous admiration for those who had the courage of their convictions as Ali did.

and yes, I was intimately familiar with draft. I enlisted and spent four years in the USAF rather than 2 years in the army as the odds of ending up in Vietnam were considerably less in the USAF...

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by 74-911

The draft in the Vietnam era was the most illogical, corrupt, unfair system that could have devised by a bunch of bureaucrats. Yes, the rich, famous and connected were seldom if ever drafted but they avoided the draft under the radar, not by publicly refusing to be drafted and suffering the consequences of that decision. I have tremendous admiration for those who had the courage of their convictions as Ali did.

and yes, I was intimately familiar with draft. I enlisted and spent four years in the USAF rather than 2 years in the army as the odds of ending up in Vietnam were considerably less in the USAF...

I have no respect for anyone who was a draft dodger. Ali's conviction was that he did not want to go get shot at...just like everyone else. He could have still served by joining the AF like you did and avoided the draft altogether. He chose not to. He was a coward who only served himself.

While the draft was not perfect, I don't know how to make such a massive undertaking any better. Your number comes up...you serve. There will always be those incapable of serving or doing war-related tasks the nation values more (deferments)...and those who try to game that system.

[Ziggythecat]

^
You condemn Ali for being a coward...yet you defend and support Donald Trump, who dodged the draft and served only himself...
Let's hear you snivel out of this one.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by Ziggythecat

^
You condemn Ali for being a coward...yet you defend and support Donald Trump, who dodged the draft and served only himself...
Let's hear you snivel out of this one.

Ali may not have been a coward. Maybe he just preferred air conditioned comfort to the jungle or the deck of a ship and chose not to do his required service the same as other Americans. Either way, he earned my disgust.

As far as I know, Trump did not violate the Selective Service law in any way. He had routine student deferments available to all and later, a medical deferment that indicated he was physically unfit for duty. Of course that is a different topic entirely.

If you want to talk politics, why not take it back to PARF? The boys too rough on you over there? Wahhh.

[Ziggythecat]

Trump showed up with a letter from a Doctor , who claimed bones spurs in a foot…a typical dodge that can't be proved or disproved by the cursory physical.
Donald, to this day, can't remember which foot he " suffered" with.
He described his sex life in NY as his personal Vietnam.

Ali stood by his moral and religious convictions and accepted the consequences.

Who's the coward here….besides you ?

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by Ziggythecat

Trump showed up with a letter from a Doctor , who claimed bones spurs in a foot…a typical dodge that can't be proved or disproved by the cursory physical.
Donald, to this day, can't remember which foot he " suffered" with.
He described his sex life in NY as his personal Vietnam.

Ali stood by his moral and religious convictions and accepted the consequences.

Who's the coward here….besides you ?

Still trying to argue politics in OT I see. The "Trump" thread in PARF not enough for you...or is it because you constantly get your ass handed to you there?

You make it sound like you were there when Trump went to the processing station. I have seen his deferment paperwork and it does not say anything about them not being able to diagnose his problem or that they only made a cursory exam. If it were that easy, everyone would have had a medical deferment.

I guess you could claim that one or more doctors lied about his or anyone's deferment. Without any indication that is the case, only a dirt bag loser would suggest the doctor/s lied.

I served long and honorably. Did you?

[Rodsrsr]

Originally Posted by fintstone

A great boxer but not much of a man. A draft evader who refuse to serve the country that gave him so much opportunity. I resented very much the fact that my brother and others we knew had to serve while the rich and famous could do as they pleased. Although there were plenty of legitimate ways to get a deferral (education for example) which postponed competing in the draft or medical (if a physical problem)...those who simply refused don't deserve to live in such a fine nation...paid for by the blood of others who did not shy away from serving.

There was a racial/civil rights component to his decision as well. You are looking at it through the lens of a white person. A Black man would have to go kill innocent people for the sake of the US, then come home and be told he has to drink out of the colored peoples water fountain and sit in the back of the bus. America may have been a great nation for you, but it wasn't so great for a Black man in the mid 60's.

[Ziggythecat]

You're the one that politicized this thread by claiming Ali was a coward for not serving in the military, and I've heard you state that Donald's years in Military School ( sent there as punishment because he abused teachers at his regular High School) is suitable preparation of being Commander in Chief.

Plenty of time to get back to PARF…the echo chamber isn't going anywhere.

By the way…who could forget what foot caused all that pain…except a liar/faker ?
He must have visited a faith healer..because his problem magically disappeared .

[Rodsrsr]

What the hell does Donald Trump have to do with this conversation btw?

[Rodsrsr]

Originally Posted by Ziggythecat

You're the one that politicized this thread by claiming Ali was a coward for not serving in the military, and I've heard you state that Donald's years in Military School ( sent there as punishment because he abused teachers at his regular High School) is suitable preparation of being Commander in Chief.

Plenty of time to get back to PARF…the echo chamber isn't going anywhere.

Its very clear that you put people in political categories based on assumptions. It would suit you well to learn how to separate politics from everyday conversations. This is a thread about Mohammad Ali, it has absolutely nothing to do with Donald Trump. Although I disagree with Flintstone, he is no way politicizing the thread, by stating his opinion regarding the draft. Its bizarre that you see it that way.

[Ziggythecat]

Just tying to put Fint's calling of Ali a coward into perspective.
Granted, it belongs in PARF, but when he calls Ali a coward for refusing to serve, and supports and defends Trump's draft dodging actions in the next sentence, he should be called on it.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by Rodsrsr

There was a racial/civil rights component to his decision as well. You are looking at it through the lens of a white person. A Black man would have to go kill innocent people for the sake of the US, then come home and be told he has to drink out of the colored peoples water fountain and sit in the back of the bus. America may have been a great nation for you, but it wasn't so great for a Black man in the mid 60's.

I think you would have been correct in the late 50's and early 60's...but, by Jan '67 that was long gone. Clay was already rich and famous and lived quite well. No one asked him to kill innocent people. In fact, no one asked any more of him than any other American who served....white, black, Hispanic, Asian, native American, etc. Most did not want to go either...but, they did.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by Ziggythecat

Just tying to put Fint's calling of Ali a coward into perspective.
Granted, it belongs in PARF, but when he calls Ali a coward for refusing to serve, and supports and defends Trump's draft dodging actions in the next sentence, he should be called on it.

Don't be a moron. You brought up Trump. No one else. You often bring up politics in OT...because you realize that your stupidity will not be refuted as soundly here as in PARF. Knock it off.

[Ziggythecat]

You were quick to call Ali a coward for not serving…certainly a political commentary.
Now that your hero , DJT, is shown to be no better, you get your panties all in a wad.

As usual, you resort to name calling…well done.

[JD159]

Discussing what you feel is draft dodging from a black/white perspective is political. War is political. Mandatory participation is political. Trump is political. Dems vs repubs is political.

This was a thread about someone who is admired for whatever reasons someone may have, who was on life support, and has now died.

This thread needs neither your (Flint) opinion about his lack of courage, relative to YOUR beliefs, nor your (Ziggy) remarks regarding Trump and political views.

Seriously. This is the god damn internet. Chill out.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by BE911SC

At least he was honest and open about why he refused to be drafted and then went to jail--and didn't run off to Canada or somewhere else.

He also didn't come up with the BS line, "I had better things to do." That was a recent vice president who said that.

I admire Ali for standing up to his principles. It cost him a lot, nearly destroyed his career. He was a great athlete, but standing up to the draft was perhaps his greatest hour.

[Bob Kontak]

Superman don't need no seat belt

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:Muhammad_Ali

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by JD159

Discussing what you feel is draft dodging from a black/white perspective is political. War is political. Mandatory participation is political. Trump is political. Dems vs repubs is political.

This was a thread about someone who is admired for whatever reasons someone may have, who was on life support, and has now died.

This thread needs neither your (Flint) opinion about his lack of courage, relative to YOUR beliefs, nor your (Ziggy) remarks regarding Trump and political views.

Seriously. This is the god damn internet. Chill out.

No. Mandatory participation was backed by both parties. It was the law of the land. It was not a Republican or Democrat War. Americans of all race, color, creed, and political leaning served.

Draft dodging was done by both blacks and whites. Talking about it is not political but rather, historical. Clay, his handlers and his heirs (as well as all other draft dodgers) have had 50 years to rewrite history and create heroism out of their cowardice. Some of us still remember the truth...and sending our neighbors and brothers. The whitewash will not be complete until we are all gone.

This thread does not need your opinion of whether or not my opinion is valid either...but you chose to post it. As far as Trump and political views, I did not introduce that, so leave me out of your remarks. This is not the appropriate place to discuss those.