Depreciation

[DanielDudley]

Originally Posted by Craig T

I wouldn't want to be one of the guys who paid $300K for a Singer ten years from now.

I'm guessing that Singer guys will keep the prices up without too much trouble. They aren't exactly RUF, but they are Singer, and you can't Frankencar that.

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by Deschodt

So now (rant somewhat on) I'm stuck with a few cars that have become valuable (I know boo-hoo) which I drive less because the cost of keeping them nice or mechanically sound tripled, and I fear a texting idiot will crash into me and reduce value. I also can't customize them too much or I lose $, which I agree is my decision but who likes to piss money ? And I cannot justify buying any other bucket list cars from that era because they're just not worth THAT $ to me. Best thing I can think of is trading and pretending we went back 10y in pricing... We should start a website for trades...

Why is this an issue?
You did not pay these prices nor did you expect them to get to these levels when you bought.
If I told you that your car was worth $1 or $1mm, it should make no difference to you.
If anything, rising prices should allow you to drive with less worry, since the car is worth more than you paid, and you can "refi" the car to pay for any maintenance issues.
With values up, the car is actually more drivable.

How have maintenance costs have tripled in the last few years.

[sc_rufctr]

This is all speculation. With a 911 (or any classic sports car) you have to pay to play & if you can at least get your money back when it comes time to sell that's a good thing.
If you wont buy one thinking they'll loose money well that's going to happen for sure with any new car.

Life's for living. Grab it by the short and curlies while you can.

[Craig T]

Originally Posted by DanielDudley

I'm guessing that Singer guys will keep the prices up without too much trouble. They aren't exactly RUF, but they are Singer, and you can't Frankencar that.

I disagree. Singer is the King of Frankenporsche. They start with a 964 chassis, then bolt on custom pieces from various sources that have changed a few times. Some motors are rebuilt 964 3.6's, other are Cosworth. The exhausts were made by a small stainless steel fab shop in Orange Co. That may have changed. This is no state of the art manufactured car like Koenigsegg or McLaren. It's some well funded guys building very well done Porsche themed hot rods.

Maybe they'll sell 100 before the market dries up. In a decade I doubt there will be a source for OEM Singer parts, or specialists working on them. If I had $300K to spend on a weekend hot rod it would be a Ferrari or McLaren... Or, a Porsche collector car as an investment, it would a 365 Speedster or 911R. I certainly wouldn't bank on Singer.

[onewhippedpuppy]

I don't think Singer has done anything particularly unique, they've just mass produced and marketed it. Not to take anything away from their cars, but they aren't the only company that has done high end custom 911 hot rods.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by Craig T

I disagree. Singer is the King of Frankenporsche. They start with a 964 chassis, then bolt on custom pieces from various sources that have changed a few times. Some motors are rebuilt 964 3.6's, other are Cosworth. The exhausts were made by a small stainless steel fab shop in Orange Co. That may have changed. This is no state of the art manufactured car like Koenigsegg or McLaren. It's some well funded guys building very well done Porsche themed hot rods.

Maybe they'll sell 100 before the market dries up. In a decade I doubt there will be a source for OEM Singer parts, or specialists working on them. If I had $300K to spend on a weekend hot rod it would be a Ferrari or McLaren... Or, a Porsche collector car as an investment, it would a 365 Speedster or 911R. I certainly wouldn't bank on Singer.

Well thought out. Except for one thing. $300K is lunch money to most of the Singer customers. It represents another of the silly things done/bought by the very rich.

[svandamme]

I don't even like the Singers, they look likek bad copies, to clean , they tried to hard to make it perfect and overdid it

[onewhippedpuppy]

Meanwhile on BaT.....

1977 Porsche 911S | Bring a Trailer

[JossP80]

Watching values has been so interesting...

I was originally on pelican in the early 2000s, and purchased a cream P uff 912e for $5,500. Within a few years I got into a 987, then a 981. I came back here earlier this year to finally get into the aircooled 6 for which I grew up dreaming.

Aircooled values are insane! As much as I THINK I want to, I can't bring myself to fork out $30,000 for a middie, when I'm looking it high mileage 997 money. I could get a pretty good Cayman S and think nothing of striping it into a fun hot rod (my previous 987 and 981 were new off the lot and I couldn't bring myself to mess with them under warranty).

I'm not sure it can be argued that there are better Porsche sports cars for comparable money to any aircooled (save for subjective measures like personality, uniqueness, style, nostalgia, etc).

I'll always love aircooled 911s, but assessing for overall value for what they're trading at now... It's a tough call.

[aigel]

That BAT midyear is a mess! Haha!

Do any of you know anyone who bought one of these high priced 911s for personal use? Or are these flippers selling to each other?

I instruct at an AX school every year here and haven't run across a single old 911 who anyone bought recently. It is all newer cars now.

G

[Craig T]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Meanwhile on BaT.....

1977 Porsche 911S | Bring a Trailer

LMAO! The first couple comments are hilarious. $25K didn't meet reserve??? The seller is dreaming.

[Craig T]

IMHO Water cooled Porsches in the same price range are hands down the better value, and driving experience compared when to air-cooled 911's...Especially the 996TT

Some of you know that I backdated and restored a 75S into a light weight long-hood hot rod three years ago. I paid $5,000 for the 75 donor with a seized motor and trashed interior. The finished car was fun for short distances, or a track day in cool weather, but nobody would ride in it without bi#tching.

Some super wealthy guy bought it for over six figures That's how I got my 997 Turbo...and we had enough left over to pay for my daughter's wedding

Everybody in the air cooled world told me I was crazy for selling it. I say it was the best dammed decision I ever made! I've put 20,000 miles on the 997TT already. My wife loves it.

[Jrboulder]

I enjoy my 912E a lot more when I think of it as worth the $4575 I paid for it. I don't know why, I guess the stakes are a lot lower in terms of door dings, rock chips and non-CoA features. And I'm not constantly thinking about how there aren't a million better uses for ~20k.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by Craig T

IMHO Water cooled Porsches in the same price range are hands down the better value, and driving experience compared when to air-cooled 911's...Especially the 996TT

Some of you know that I backdated and restored a 75S into a light weight long-hood hot rod three years ago. I paid $5,000 for the 75 donor with a seized motor and trashed interior. The finished car was fun for short distances, or a track day in cool weather, but nobody would ride in it without bi#tching.

Some super wealthy guy bought it for over six figures That's how I got my 997 Turbo...and we had enough left over to pay for my daughter's wedding

Everybody in the air cooled world told me I was crazy for selling it. I say it was the best dammed decision I ever made! I've put 20,000 miles on the 997TT already. My wife loves it.

Nicely done!

[bob deluke]

Sold my 77 Targa last year for $23K. Good deal for all concerned. Bought a well sorted 996 cab. Light years away from the 911. At 71, tired of wrenching on an old Porsche. The cab is a nice car, and I have an opportunity to sell it and make a few bucks. Pretty much done with Porsche as prices for anything decent are stratospheric. I can't afford to build another on my fixed income so I am getting out. Probably buy an Audi, Volvo or BMW coupe as a daily driver. My friend wants me to build a roller coupe and I was seriously considering it, but had second thoughts. Too bad as I really love these cars, and I remember buying mine 10 years ago for $3500.00. Matching numbers engine/trans and zero rust. I see crapped out, rusted rollers minus engine/trans, no glass with asking price of $12-$15K. Seriously? Count me out. I'll probably be dead by the time Porsche prices are again realistic.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Same day, same website, this very clean 911SC cab sold for $33k. While higher than prices 5 years ago, in the grand scheme of collector cars doesn't seem too crazy.

[JossP80]

Well done! I'd choose the same any day!

So goes my dilemma... 997s are an INCREDIBLE value right now...

Originally Posted by Craig T

IMHO Water cooled Porsches in the same price range are hands down the better value, and driving experience compared when to air-cooled 911's...Especially the 996TT

Some of you know that I backdated and restored a 75S into a light weight long-hood hot rod three years ago. I paid $5,000 for the 75 donor with a seized motor and trashed interior. The finished car was fun for short distances, or a track day in cool weather, but nobody would ride in it without bi#tching.

Some super wealthy guy bought it for over six figures That's how I got my 997 Turbo...and we had enough left over to pay for my daughter's wedding

Everybody in the air cooled world told me I was crazy for selling it. I say it was the best dammed decision I ever made! I've put 20,000 miles on the 997TT already. My wife loves it.

[onewhippedpuppy]

911 values are a mess right now.

$30k buys a minty 996, decent 996 C4S, decent 997, driver SC or mid year.
$40k buys a 996TT, mint 996 C4S or 996 40th AE, 997S, driver 964, nice SC.
$50k buys a 997.2, driver G50 Carrera, ragged out 993, nice 964, maybe a tired longhood, maybe a 991, knocking on the door of a 997TT, and God only knows what else.

It only gets worse from there. Value subject to vary +/- 100%. Interject the 912, 951, 968, 928, 986, 987, 981.....it only gets more ridiculous.

[sc_rufctr]

A friend recently sold a "ragged out 993" for $65K. (here in Adelaide)

Dark blue coupe, stick shift. Tired interior and paint... 270,000 km - 167,770 Miles. Locally delivered and he owned it from new.

It was on the market for about 6 days.

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

911 values are a mess right now.

$30k buys a minty 996, decent 996 C4S, decent 997, driver SC or mid year.
$40k buys a 996TT, mint 996 C4S or 996 40th AE, 997S, driver 964, nice SC.
$50k buys a 997.2, driver G50 Carrera, ragged out 993, nice 964, maybe a tired longhood, maybe a 991, knocking on the door of a 997TT, and God only knows what else.

It only gets worse from there. Value subject to vary +/- 100%. Interject the 912, 951, 968, 928, 986, 987, 981.....it only gets more ridiculous.

Low $20s seems to get a nice 996 in the 50k to 60k mile range.
2002 Porsche 911 Carrera Coupe | Bring a Trailer
1999 Porsche 911 Coupe | Bring a Trailer
1999 Porsche 911 Carrera Coupe | Bring a Trailer
2000 Porsche 911 Carrera Coupe | Bring a Trailer