"Blue Paint" Engines

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

Switched to?

VR-1 for the aircooled, and I some sort of Valvoline on the Cayman. I haven't even driven it 3,000 miles in 2 years because life has gotten crazy busy.

[CJFusco]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

But ... it was confirmed by an unsubstantiated source!

Quick question for the peanut gallery: how many ferrari engines last 137k without a rebuild?

This is a fair point, and I guess my only response is that it's a shame that the priorities of Porsche as a company have changed. For example, people who buy a Ferrari are well aware that they are buying a somewhat temperamental Italian automobile that delivers sublime sensory pleasures, but that maintenance and repairs might be hefty down the line.

Conversely, Porsche USED TO represent the marque you go to when you want 1) a top-notch driving experience, and 2) build quality and longevity. Sure, a 3.0 SC engine might leak oil and there might be a chance that a head stud will snap, but for the most part those things go forever. Moreover, the car FEELS solid -- consider all the statements people have made about how closing the door feels like closing yourself into a vault. No rattles, no shimmies and shakes. Now granted, there are a fair number of old 911 engines that have been rebuilt, but that's a much less daunting proposition on an air-cooled engine from 1981 than one of these water-cooled units that takes a high level of expertise to reassemble. How many air-cooled engines have been rebuilt in someone's home garage? And how many m97s engines will see similar treatment?

The new Porsches feel much more like mass-produced cars... because they are. A lot of people noted the cheaper feel of the 996/Boxster line in comparison to the outgoing 993s, 928 GTSs, and 968s. I still remember many automotive journalists musing that the interior feels like a compromise, but this is forgivable considering the quality of the driving experience. At 50,000 miles, my Cayman S had more squeaks and rattles than my 115K mile 944 Turbo ever did. It's clear that the quality of the build materials has suffered since Porsche started producing more cars.

And the driving experience is always fantastic. The 987 Cayman S is a fantastic car to drive, despite whatever weaknesses in its build quality. But if I wanted that combo, I would've purchased an Alfa Romeo or a Lotus.

[CJFusco]

Originally Posted by VincentVega

I like that, if I fit I'd have one.

I wonder about the water pumpers. Who doesnt know they have 'issues'? They have depreciated so much at least in part to the engine issues. I dont think it means a thing to compare a modern water cooled 911 to any previous gen, different animal. Look at the #'s and it seems like a small %. Thing is I know of more than a handful of guys that lost at 1 or more engines. Not abused, ex rental, race cars or whatever. Happens way too much to cars with low miles, avg miles, babied miles... Cant say that about any other make I can think of. They are great fun to drive but how can you be surprised when something happens? Stinks no matter and not something I wish on anyone.

OP - I hope its just a lifter something less than it sounds. Good luck, sorry to hear about your issue.

Thanks -- I'll know soon enough.

Yeah, I used to play the percentage game and think "oh, I have such a small chance of a failure..." but one Porsche owner I know is on her third engine in her Boxster S, and her husband is on his 2nd engine in his 997. We have Brando's experiences here, and the guy who RUNS Planet-9 had an engine failure in his Cayman S. Yes, there are a ton of cars out there that appear to be fine, but the number of failures is mounting...

[JJ 911SC]

Originally Posted by rusnak

...

... But wait There's More! If you call in the next 30 minutes we will send you 2 jugs of Brad Penn for the price of 1 (just pay a separate handling and shipping fee)

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by CJFusco

This is a fair point, and I guess my only response is that it's a shame that the priorities of Porsche as a company have changed. For example, people who buy a Ferrari are well aware that they are buying a somewhat temperamental Italian automobile that delivers sublime sensory pleasures, but that maintenance and repairs might be hefty down the line.

Conversely, Porsche USED TO represent the marque you go to when you want 1) a top-notch driving experience, and 2) build quality and longevity. Sure, a 3.0 SC engine might leak oil and there might be a chance that a head stud will snap, but for the most part those things go forever. Moreover, the car FEELS solid -- consider all the statements people have made about how closing the door feels like closing yourself into a vault. No rattles, no shimmies and shakes. Now granted, there are a fair number of old 911 engines that have been rebuilt, but that's a much less daunting proposition on an air-cooled engine from 1981 than one of these water-cooled units that takes a high level of expertise to reassemble. How many air-cooled engines have been rebuilt in someone's home garage? And how many m97s engines will see similar treatment?

The new Porsches feel much more like mass-produced cars... because they are. A lot of people noted the cheaper feel of the 996/Boxster line in comparison to the outgoing 993s, 928 GTSs, and 968s. I still remember many automotive journalists musing that the interior feels like a compromise, but this is forgivable considering the quality of the driving experience. At 50,000 miles, my Cayman S had more squeaks and rattles than my 115K mile 944 Turbo ever did. It's clear that the quality of the build materials has suffered since Porsche started producing more cars.

And the driving experience is always fantastic. The 987 Cayman S is a fantastic car to drive, despite whatever weaknesses in its build quality. But if I wanted that combo, I would've purchased an Alfa Romeo or a Lotus.

Well stated, clear and concise.

I asked the baited question for a reason: Which bar do we hold this company's products to?
Does it get the same slack as a temperamental high performance hand-made vehicle ready to fall apart at a glance (anything made in Italy or Spain), should we hold it up to the same standards as a typical mass produced vehicle like ford or GM or Toyota?

Or should we expect it to be somewhere in-between ......

My personal opinion is that if they're going to charge huge cubic dollars, their cars better last a go-zillion years.

But that doesn't really apply (see Italy).

What it boils down to is apparently this: a Porsche should be bought new and driven for no more than 100,000 miles and then replaced with another new Porsche.
Just like a ford.

If you don't want to spend that kind of money every several years, buy a ford. Like me

(PS there are lots of people out there who have proven otherwise)

[CJFusco]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

Well stated, clear and concise.

I asked the baited question for a reason: Which bar do we hold this company's products to?
Does it get the same slack as a temperamental high performance hand-made vehicle ready to fall apart at a glance (anything made in Italy or Spain), should we hold it up to the same standards as a typical mass produced vehicle like ford or GM or Toyota?

Or should we expect it to be somewhere in-between ......

My personal opinion is that if they're going to charge huge cubic dollars, their cars better last a go-zillion years.

But that doesn't really apply (see Italy).

What it boils down to is apparently this: a Porsche should be bought new and driven for no more than 100,000 miles and then replaced with another new Porsche.
Just like a ford.

If you don't want to spend that kind of money every several years, buy a ford. Like me

(PS there are lots of people out there who have proven otherwise)

Yes, I think you're probably right. What does Porsche care if a 10 year-old Cayman has an engine failure in the hands of its third owner? The car got top marks for initial quality, it did fine under warrantee, so its reputation amongst the well-heeled buyers is unscathed. Sure enough, I just saw an article that Porsche has once again rated as the #1 most desirable luxury automaker sold in the U.S.

Meanwhile, the 911SCs, 1980s Volvos and Mercedes Diesels, and millions of Camrys, Carollas, Civics, and Accords just keep chugging along.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by CJFusco

Yes, I think you're probably right. What does Porsche care if a 10 year-old Cayman has an engine failure in the hands of its third owner? The car got top marks for initial quality, it did fine under warrantee, so its reputation amongst the well-heeled buyers is unscathed. Sure enough, I just saw an article that Porsche has once again rated as the #1 most desirable luxury automaker sold in the U.S.



Meanwhile, the 911SCs, 1980s Volvos and Mercedes Diesels, and millions of Camrys, Carollas, Civics, and Accords just keep chugging along.

My El Camino made it 300,000 miles on the original 305. I never had the heads off. Just drove it until the rings and valve stems were worn out. I bought a brand new GM crate engine 350 for $1,700 and it bolted right up. I have put 55,000 on the 350 and drive it every day.

No other brand of car can sell a new, not rebuild, brand new engine with a factory warranty of 24,000 miles for that cheap.

[SoCal911T]

Originally Posted by CJFusco

Meanwhile, the 911SCs, 1980s Volvos and Mercedes Diesels, and millions of Camrys, Carollas, Civics, and Accords just keep chugging along.

There are quite a few '80s BMWs still out there too. The ones left are mostly enthusiast owned so you don't see them driving around town running errands much.

[sammyg2]

How well do those black audi wagons hold up?

[pwd72s]

Cj, at you current "with child" stage of life, have you considered a minivan?

[sammyg2]

When I bought my 911 SC it had 102,000 miles on it and 2 broken head studs IIRC.
But it weren't all blowed up.

[gtc]

Am I misunderstanding the planet 9 thread? I thought it was revealed at the end of the thread that ALL Cayman S engines had blue paint, because the factory used blue and yellow paint to distinguish the S engines from the standard engines.

[CJFusco]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

Cj, at you current "with child" stage of life, have you considered a minivan?

Nah. I have a Volvo wagon, and my wife is in the process of shopping for something bigger now (she currently has a Mazda3, which is pretty small).

A lot of people gave the stereotypical, chuckling "haw haw haw now that you're married, the little missus is going to make you sell your toy cars and buy a minivan."

What they don't realize is the family she's from.

Dad has five cars: a new Chevy pickup, an old Chevy pickup he uses for his ferrier business, a 1970 Chevy truck with a 350, a 1971 Dodge Challenger R/T, and a 1972 Plymouth Duster.

Mom has two cars: a Toyota SUV and a Boxster S.

Brother has four vehicles: a Toyota FJ, another Duster, an old Bronco, and some kind of "crotch-rocket" bike.

Uncle has... something like 20-30 cars? Pretty much every model Corvette from the early 60s to the late 70s, Boss 302 Mustangs, Rambler Scramblers, custom Mercury hot rods... in his warehouse, a friend also stores a custom-built 964 TWIN Turbo (big oil puddle next to that one for some reason), a Cayman GT4, and a 981 Boxster S.

So. She knows better than to try to separate a car guy from his toys

[CJFusco]

Originally Posted by gtc

Am I misunderstanding the planet 9 thread? I thought it was revealed at the end of the thread that ALL Cayman S engines had blue paint, because the factory used blue and yellow paint to distinguish the S engines from the standard engines.

That's what one guy said, but that's in direct contradiction with the direct evidence (people who posted stating that they have a 2006 Cayman S 3.4 with no blue paint).

[CJFusco]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

How well do those black audi wagons hold up?

That's an OLD reference, Sammy... man, that brings back memories.

[CJFusco]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

When I bought my 911 SC it had 102,000 miles on it and 2 broken head studs IIRC.
But it weren't all blowed up.

Exactly. You break a head stud, you don't need to replace the engine. It's a pain, sure, but not, as they say with m96/m97 failures, "catastrophic."

[nynor]

and this, my friends, is why i went with a corvette.

sorry about your woes, cjfusco.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

As someone who is currently managing a transmission build program, yes, I would.

If you think there is some sort of extra value from simply having German assemblers on the line you are wrong.

The people are a small part of the quality formula. The NVH testers and the torque testers at the end of the line are a big part of the QA process, and they are the same around the world, as are the processes, and the tools.

I hate to disagree but considering the history a Porsche 911 IN MY OPINION it should be 100% Made In Germany!

German made excellence... There is no substitute! Isn't that what they've been trying to sell us for generations?

My German made 1994 VW Golf VR6 has traveled well over 300,000 kilometers without any major issues.
How has the Mexican assembled 1994-98 Jetta VR6 fared in comparison?

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by nynor

and this, my friends, is why i went with a corvette.

sorry about your woes, cjfusco.

I've heard they have a bullet proof drive train!

[KNS]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

I hate to disagree but considering the history a Porsche 911 IN MY OPINION it should be 100% Made In Germany!

German made excellence... There is no substitute! Isn't that what they've been trying to sell us for generations?

My German made 1994 VW Golf VR6 has traveled well over 300,000 kilometers without any major issues.
How has the Mexican assembled 1994-98 Jetta VR6 fared in comparison?

Agree. If I buy a Ford Focus made in Mexico I'm not thrilled about it but oh well, it should be fine.

If I buy a Porsche I want it to be made in Germany. It's part of the whole image they're trying to sell the public (tooling through the Alps in your Carrrera, etc.). I'm buying German engineered and built.

BMW will start building 3 series in Mexico. Will the customer get the same break in price proportionate to the savings BMW will have by not building them in Germany?

If you're shopping for a new Buick take a close look at the sticker, some US models are made in China now.