Updating mirrors (electrics)

[Targa_whaletail]

Hi,

I have heated power flag mirrors on my 1984 Carrera 3.2. They are the older type with the solenoid and motor. (glass with three tabs) I have had a couple of goes at fixing these but have now decided to upgrade to the newer flag double motor type (glass with circular mounting).

If possible, I'd like to avoid adding relays.

What I started with:

91173103508 wing mirror flat glass
91161311300 door changeover switch (single pole)
91161311500 door control switch / joystick
and the original motor + solenoid "fishline" with gearing box

What I think I will get:
2 of: 94473102701 door mirror motor assembly and pigtail
2 of: 94473103503 convex wing mirror glass
1of: 92861324100 joystick

I'm unsure if I need:
92861254200 connector housing
91161342300 assembly frame

And I've no clue if this control box is needed:
PCG73102806
Maybe this is for memory on much newer cars..?

I have some questions please.
- Will the new motor assembly fit onto the old mirror mounting? (gulp)
- Are the connectors at the mirror the same?
- Can I avoid relays? Do I need the changeover switch, and will it fit in same location as the old one?
- Will the new joystick fit OK? Do I need the connector housing and assembly frame?

Bentley seems to have the wiring diagrams backwards (shows solenoid on newer rather than older cars). But no hint of the control box?

What wiring will I need to change? I think it may be one new wire - once I upgrade the joystick, and maybe a relay if I don't change the changeover switch to the later dual pole.

Thoughts? Thanks!

[uwanna]

Originally Posted by Targa_whaletail

Hi,

I have heated power flag mirrors on my 1984 Carrera 3.2. They are the older type with the solenoid and motor. (glass with three tabs) I have had a couple of goes at fixing these but have now decided to upgrade to the newer flag double motor type (glass with circular mounting).

If possible, I'd like to avoid adding relays.

What I started with:

91173103508 wing mirror flat glass
91161311300 door changeover switch (single pole)
91161311500 door control switch / joystick
and the original motor + solenoid "fishline" with gearing box

What I think I will get:
2 of: 94473102701 door mirror motor assembly and pigtail
2 of: 94473103503 convex wing mirror glass
1of: 92861324100 joystick

I'm unsure if I need:
92861254200 connector housing
91161342300 assembly frame

And I've no clue if this control box is needed:
PCG73102806
Maybe this is for memory on much newer cars..?

I have some questions please.
- Will the new motor assembly fit onto the old mirror mounting? (gulp)
- Are the connectors at the mirror the same?
- Can I avoid relays? Do I need the changeover switch, and will it fit in same location as the old one?
- Will the new joystick fit OK? Do I need the connector housing and assembly frame?

Bentley seems to have the wiring diagrams backwards (shows solenoid on newer rather than older cars). But no hint of the control box?

What wiring will I need to change? I think it may be one new wire - once I upgrade the joystick, and maybe a relay if I don't change the changeover switch to the later dual pole.

Thoughts? Thanks!

To change over to new style mirrors you can keep your old joystick and
switchover switch. You just need to rewire a bit and install a very small Single Pole/Double Throw
relay (about the size of a postage stamp) inside the mirror body. (can give you source and P/N for relay if needed).
EDIT:This relay should be readily available in EU as it's made in Czech Rep

Here's a thread on updating to new style mirrors. Read it through and study the wiring diagram on post #33 which shows the relay that enables switchover from verticle to horizontal. It's really quite basic.
It accomplishes what the old solenoid did in the old style mirror.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/647571-electrical-gurus-please-flag-mirror-issues-2.html

WIRING DIAGRAM Post #33

[Targa_whaletail]

Originally Posted by uwanna

To change over to new style mirrors you can keep your old joystick and
switchover switch. You just need to rewire a bit and install a very small Single Pole/Double Throw
relay (about the size of a postage stamp) inside the mirror body. (can give you source and P/N for relay if needed).
EDIT:This relay should be readily available in EU as it's made in Czech Rep

Here's a thread on updating to new style mirrors. Read it through and study the wiring diagram on post #33 which shows the relay that enables switchover from verticle to horizontal. It's really quite basic.
It accomplishes what the old solenoid did in the old style mirror.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/647571-electrical-gurus-please-flag-mirror-issues-2.html


WIRING DIAGRAM Post #33

Thanks for this!

Not sure how these relays will last over time? Did you use heat-shrink with adhesive, and potting compound? I was looking at tabbed relays for better connections but they are too big (I thought automotive DPDT relays were needed - didn't realise SPDT would work?).

[uwanna]

these are very durable relays rated at 6A/250V. Mirrors certainly don't require very high amperage. Just solder them into the wiring in the mirror and use heatshrink or electrical tape, then wrap the "package" with electrical tape. there is plenty of room in the mirror housing with the new dual motor assy and no need to "pot" them or anything.
EDIT: here's the data sheet on this relay https://www.alliedelec.com/m/d/8edbf80c718918d03035193cb3eaf534.pdf

[Targa_whaletail]

Originally Posted by uwanna

these are very durable relays rated at 6A/250V. Mirrors certainly don't require very high amperage. Just solder them into the wiring in the mirror and use heatshrink or electrical tape, then wrap the "package" with electrical tape. there is plenty of room in the mirror housing with the new dual motor assy and no need to "pot" them or anything.
EDIT: here's the data sheet on this relay https://www.alliedelec.com/m/d/8edbf80c718918d03035193cb3eaf534.pdf

Would you use a flyback diode across the relay coil - e.g., UF4004 ?

[uwanna]

Originally Posted by Targa_whaletail

Would you use a flyback diode across the relay coil - e.g., UF4004 ?

No, not necessary. Years ago a chap who sold new Aero mirrors sold a
little made up wiring piece that did exactly what adding and wiring in the relay does. It came in a taped up bundle with just a very small relay inside and wiring pigtails with splicing instructions. Been NLA for years.

[Targa_whaletail]

Originally Posted by uwanna

No, not necessary. Years ago a chap who sold new Aero mirrors sold a
little made up wiring piece that did exactly what adding and wiring in the relay does. It came in a taped up bundle with just a very small relay inside and wiring pigtails with splicing instructions. Been NLA for years.

Thanks!

Do you think the relays can move into the car somewhere? Or because the joystick is in the door frame, at the very least one would need to be in the driver side door (if not in the mirror housing)? If just thinking if a hose was used to wash the car, could inadvertently end up with a lot of water around the mirror...

[uwanna]

Originally Posted by Targa_whaletail

Thanks!

Do you think the relays can move into the car somewhere? Or because the joystick is in the door frame, at the very least one would need to be in the driver side door (if not in the mirror housing)? If just thinking if a hose was used to wash the car, could inadvertently end up with a lot of water around the mirror...

Nah, after the splice and solder work, just wrap it up tight with electricians tape. Many folks have done the NLA piece in Aero mirrors
and I've never heard of a problem

[uwanna]

Please update this thread with any progress you make.
Good luck,
Grant

[Targa_whaletail]

So I'm finally back at this...

I purchased the newer flag motors and housing, convex mirror glass, and the later joystick (power mirror switch for door) and changeover switch for under dash.

I really want to avoid placing relays in the mirror housing.

Do we need to run any new wiring (e.g., to the new changeover switch)?

It looks like the new joystick is 5 vs. 6 wire, and the new changeover is 5 wire vs. 3 wire (based on Bentley schematic)?