When outlaws are no longer outre, whats next?

[RWebb]

Didn't we have this same discussion when synchromesh was introduced?

[NYNick]

Finger pointing gets us nowhere. If you choose to argue against vehicle electrification for whatever reason you can muster, you're fighting a rising tide that will eventually drown out internal combustion, slowly but surely. It's a transportation paradigm shift that's happening before our eyes. Try disputing this with ANY car manufacturer on the planet. Any of them.

Certain business groups, politicians and individuals will go down kicking and screaming, but go down they will. And while I don't really like new cars per se, I would love to drive a fast, electric sports car that handles like the devil. For me, it's always been about performance.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by NYNick

. . .
And while I don't really like new cars per se, I would love to drive a fast, electric sports car that handles like the devil. For me, it's always been about performance.

Same here. I recently saw a pimped out Tesla accelerate from stopped on a small runway and thought, "Holy shiit, that makes my turbo powaaaaahhhh look like a 356, 912, 914, 924 etc."!!!

[adias]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

Same here. I recently saw a pimped out Tesla accelerate from stopped on a small runway and thought, "Holy shiit, that makes my turbo powaaaaahhhh look like a 356, 912, 914, 924 etc."!!!

For me, power is not the attractor in a 911. It is its unique driving dynamics and mass distribution.

[piscator]

Originally Posted by adias

For me, power is not the attractor in a 911. It is its unique driving dynamics and mass distribution.

Agreed! That's why I asked whether electric cars even have potential as race/sports cars. Or are they too weighed down by their batteries to perform.

[tdw28210]

Originally Posted by piscator

Agreed! That's why I asked whether electric cars even have potential as race/sports cars. Or are they too weighed down by their batteries to perform.

In a word: "yes". Google the VW ID R. Owns the Pikes Peak Record.

[ChrisHoover]

Here's a walk around of the EV 912. Skip to 7:06 to miss the DeLorean and go straight to the Porsche.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIMayrQOTmc

[adias]

Originally Posted by tdw28210

In a word: "yes". Google the VW ID R. Owns the Pikes Peak Record.

No question that one can bastardize a classic 911 with an electrical powertrain and make it a more balanced and faster car. But that changes the 'unbalanced' character of the 911 some of us love. Performance is not the attractor in a 911 - it's the pendulum dynamics and prodigious out of turn traction.

[DanielDudley]

This is a great topic about cars, because people are already building these EV 911s.

Remember when Hot Rodding used to be about pushing performance envelopes and developing new technology and implementing it ? I think this IS next level Outlaw stuff, simply because it pushes the envelope. Someday maybe you will be able to go to a junkyard and pick up the parts to make a cheap conversion in your own back yard, if you have got the chops.

Somehow I find that cool. My grandfather always talked about getting some old roller skate wheels and making a soapbox derby scooter. When I was a kid, it was all about getting a good set of buggy wheels to make a downhill racer. Then it was Go Karts and anything with an engine... Hot Rodding is as old as the invention of the wheel, when bear grease was the secret technology leading to unlimited axle life...

Bring it on, and show people what you can do.

[piscator]

" Hot Rodding is as old as the invention of the wheel, when bear grease was the secret technology leading to unlimited axle life..."

Was that Kendall or Swepco bear grease? :-)

Thanks for the links guys! It seems I've got some studying to do!

[stanglife]

I'm working on my first Porsche project ever...and it's an hot rod with 3.8.... Kinda an RSish feel but with some modern touches. I really want to experience this build as my first air-cooled but if this wasn't my "first", I'd be tempted to try the EV route. The EV West guy showed their transmission adapter - I wonder what they are using for a transaxle - considering the torque of electric motors, I can imagine how easily it could destroy a gearbox.

[Iciclehead]

I don't think that electrics are the irrisistable wave mainly as they offer very few real economic or performance advantages over ICE.

Ultimately from the consumer point of view, what does an electric vehicle offer?

...they are more costly if you strip out subsidies, they have an inherent weight disadvantage, they hold roughly 2 gallons of gas equivalent and if full costing of grid and environmental were included, even the cost per mile is not materially improved.

I don't think that ICE is the way of the future, but replacing them with an inferior product is not the next step on the way. I think we need a breakthrough in transportable energy capacity that has not yet found reality.

I would add that my viewpoint is based on the fact that CO2 is not a pollutant and is not, in fact the cause of any weather/climate change, but I couple that viewpoint with the view that there is a finite amount of hydrocarbons in the world, so some other solution will need to find a place.

...but then again, at some point our sun goes nova and it all does not matter anyway...

Dennis

[ChrisHoover]

Originally Posted by stanglife

I'm working on my first Porsche project ever...and it's an hot rod with 3.8.... Kinda an RSish feel but with some modern touches. I really want to experience this build as my first air-cooled but if this wasn't my "first", I'd be tempted to try the EV route. The EV West guy showed their transmission adapter - I wonder what they are using for a transaxle - considering the torque of electric motors, I can imagine how easily it could destroy a gearbox.

The power is limited through software. Full power would rip the transaxle apart I suspect. EV West mentions their conversions are good for G50s to the earliest gearboxes. They have built electric 356s.

Where does an EV fit in my garage? First I’m active in PCA fun runs. My Cayman S is the right car for overnight trips in the Sierras. How about a fast run up the hill from San Gregorio to Alice’s. My 912/6 is perfect for that. My goal with the 912/6 is to drive it to my niece’s in Colorado. It will be a challenge in the mountains but that what I want. So where does an EV fit? I need a grocery getter. I need something to drive to work occasionally when I drive. If I put a rack on the roof, I can take it to the lumber yard. If I don’t lower it I can actually drive it into 75% of the parking lots.

[JonT]

I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't some factory battery powered engine being developed for the classic years. Rebuilds have become astronomically expensive I think many would consider a battery powered alternative from Porsche.

[RWebb]

I'm ok with it as long as no engine is available.

[Hi_Fi_Guy]

If/when PORSCHE builds electric sports cars and they eventually become accepted then few would disapprove of retrofitting a Porsche brand electric motor into an older 911.

Even if that Porsche motor is the same used by VW, Audi, etc. so long as it has a Porsche part number people will accept it.

In the meantime I love seeing what these trailblazer’s are doing and I’m envious I don’t have the time or resources to build one myself, just to do it.

[tdw28210]

Originally Posted by JonT

I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't some factory battery powered engine being developed for the classic years. Rebuilds have become astronomically expensive I think many would consider a battery powered alternative from Porsche.

Was alerted to this by one of our Cars and Cappuccino members. The guys at Elephant Racing are working on a truly bolt-on solution. Their test mule is a 991 but as the article states, this thing could be a game changer for an air-cooled.

It seems it is like an add-on KERS system that hangs off the engine rather than sitting near the driver (a la 919). VERY intriguing, but that price...yikes.

From the article: "Perhaps even more interesting is Vonnen's plans for a version of the system designed to work with air-cooled cars. It's currently in early development stages, but Moreland told me it'll only be compatible with cars with G50-style transmissions (since the electric motor has to be designed to fit on the housing) and offer similar performance to its water-cooled upgrade."

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/a23545217/vonnen-performance-aftermarket-porsche-hybrid-system/

[ChrisHoover]

Originally Posted by tdw28210

Was alerted to this by one of our Cars and Cappuccino members. The guys at Elephant Racing are working on a truly bolt-on solution. Their test mule is a 991 but as the article states, this thing could be a game changer for an air-cooled.

It seems it is like an add-on KERS system that hangs off the engine rather than sitting near the driver (a la 919). VERY intriguing, but that price...yikes.

From the article: "Perhaps even more interesting is Vonnen's plans for a version of the system designed to work with air-cooled cars. It's currently in early development stages, but Moreland told me it'll only be compatible with cars with G50-style transmissions (since the electric motor has to be designed to fit on the housing) and offer similar performance to its water-cooled upgrade."

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/car-technology/a23545217/vonnen-performance-aftermarket-porsche-hybrid-system/

Requires G50! Ah ha! SWB need not apply

[RSBob]

Will 911 and 356 hot rods go out of fashion? Considering the preponderance of hot rod shows on Motor Trend and the number of HR car shows, it’s not too likely. Most people I know appreciate a really well executed modified car. Singer and RUFs latest come to mind.