911 Sunroof Cancelled

[Flojo]

Originally Posted by super9064

Personally I would not feel safe in a roll over crash in a car that had its roof cut and welded.

you refer to the A/B/C pillar-chop way?

to be honest, the A/B/C pillars towards the roof are kind of "fragile" from factory anyway, so I guess it would not matter much.

for all those fearing a roll over and driving like wise (autocross, targas, DEs) I recommend to get a roll bar or a cage.

[trentwat]

I deleted my sunroof recently...things have sort of snowballed a bit to include much more...but, there are a few different things that go hand in hand with a delete, since the windows and seats come out. It provides access to the dashboard...and carpet...the headliner has to come out; my window rubber was cracking and leaking too.

My sunroof had broken cogs, so it was going to need a major servicing...the mechanic quoted $2,000-2,500, so it seemed smarter to just get rid of it. I initially went for a hand formed roof, but ended up with a steel delete panel. So far it looks nice...still waiting for the interior to come back together...here are some pics:

[trentwat]

Originally Posted by Flojo

you refer to the A/B/C pillar-chop way?

to be honest, the A/B/C pillars towards the roof are kind of "fragile" from factory anyway, so I guess it would not matter much.

for all those fearing a roll over and driving like wise (autocross, targas, DEs) I recommend to get a roll bar or a cage.

Yep...I picked up a DAS Sport bar a few years ago...had it powder coated and finally going to get it installed. After seeing underneath the headliner and with the sunroof cassette removed, it really doesn’t seem like much protection there. But I guess if the roof is intact, there is some strength in the design...bar will add more confidence/security.

[75 911s]

If you do a pillar chop it has way less strength than the original design. In a blunt force impact (rollover) welds will snap whereas the factory folded metal is much stronger.

[super9064]

Originally Posted by Flojo

you refer to the A/B/C pillar-chop way?

to be honest, the A/B/C pillars towards the roof are kind of "fragile" from factory anyway, so I guess it would not matter much.

for all those fearing a roll over and driving like wise (autocross, targas, DEs) I recommend to get a roll bar or a cage.

I used a Fenn Lane sunroof delete panel, they can be bonded in or welded in. They have perfect contour, and require many fewer hours to install and finish. Fenn Lane has passed but I think someone else is making them.

Looks like you have had a high quality job done by your shop, good luck and have fun 👍

[famoroso]

Originally Posted by 75 911s

If you do a pillar chop it has way less strength than the original design. In a blunt force impact (rollover) welds will snap whereas the factory folded metal is much stronger.

Fair enough, but to be clear, the OP didn't chop the pillars.

[famoroso]

Originally Posted by famoroso

Marek,

Any word on this? I'm a buyer!

Answering my own question...

https://www.jpgroupclassic.com/product/?id=1682002000



I'm waiting for an estimate from Perfect Lines for OPs same sunroof delete for my new project...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/1088406-presenting-vents-my-1989-911-m491-m470-coupe.html

...I was planning on going for it, but I may just keep the damned sunroof and mount the driver's seat (Pole Position ABE Carbon) directly to the floor, to get the desired headroom, instead.

[trentwat]

Originally Posted by super9064

I used a Fenn Lane sunroof delete panel, they can be bonded in or welded in. They have perfect contour, and require many fewer hours to install and finish. Fenn Lane has passed but I think someone else is making them.

Stuttgart Classica (UK) sold me the steel panel and a contour tool for a reasonable price...~$450...I believe it is the Fenn Lane product.

[famoroso]

Originally Posted by germanwheels

Done. Here is the roof painted. I'm thrilled with the results. A real proper job, this.

If you want to remove your sunroof, I recommend replacing the skin (vs. welding up the sunroof hole). The advantages are there is less cutting, less welding, less body filler, and in the end, it's lighter.

@germanwheels I'm speaking with Joel at Perfect Lines. At your convenience, I'd like to see your car. I'm in SoCal. Assuming you're amenable, please PM me to coordinate.

[germanwheels]

I sent you a PM.

Originally Posted by famoroso

@germanwheels I'm speaking with Joel at Perfect Lines. At your convenience, I'd like to see your car. I'm in SoCal. Assuming you're amenable, please PM me to coordinate.

[germanwheels]

Originally Posted by famoroso

Fair enough, but to be clear, the OP didn't chop the pillars.

Correct.

[famoroso]

Thanks to this thread and my lifelong hatred for sunroofs, I am dropping Vents, my 1989 M491 project car car, off at Perfect Lines next week for a sunroof delete.

I'm looking for A) increased headroom (I'm tired of my head hitting the ceiling on bumpy roads), B) strategic weight loss (I pulled 22.5 pounds of sunroof components out of the car yesterday) and C) improved aesthetics.



This picture illustrates the headroom opportunity cost associated with nasty sunroofs...



~1.6 inches from bottom of sunroof cassette to bottom of outer roof skin (i.e. the ceiling)...

[germanwheels]

Originally Posted by famoroso

Thanks to this thread and my lifelong hatred for sunroofs, I am dropping Vents, my 1989 M491 project car car, off at Perfect Lines next week for a sunroof delete.

I'm looking for A) increased headroom (I'm tired of my head hitting the ceiling on bumpy roads), B) strategic weight loss (I pulled 22.5 pounds of sunroof components out of the car yesterday) and C) improved aesthetics.



This picture illustrates the headroom opportunity cost associated with nasty sunroofs...



~1.6 inches from bottom of sunroof cassette to bottom of outer roof skin (i.e. the ceiling)...

Congratulations famoroso!

[Avanti]

Originally Posted by Rodney Nelson

Personally, I always thought this was crazy, to get rid of your sunroof.

My take on this is it started becoming a thing about 10 -15 years ago. Before that if you had an F body car you would NEVER remove your sunroof as it added value due to its rarity. I guess I could understand removing it from G Body cars as it is not so rare.

I think it started off with people really trying to lighten up their car.

If I had a sunroof I would never remove it for what I want out of my car.

I think it is now a benefit in the community not to have a sunroof, crazy. I'm restoring a 72 and was actually considering putting in a sunroof clip. I would still do it if one happened to appear in the phoenix area, and it didn't cost too much.

I'm with Rodney. I live in San Diego and enjoy my sunroof everytime I drive my 911s. It also has the least "wind buffeting" or turbulence noise or whatever its called that "goes through your ear" sound compared with so many other sunroof vehicles I've driven.

But, we should all do what we want to our cars because they're ours. You're getting some qualitywork done on your delete.

[germanwheels]

I was PM-ed for some more photos of the completed project, so I thought I'd post them here to round out the thread.

I am thrilled with the full roof skin replacement method. It worked really well for me. The outcome could not have been better. The benefits of a skin replacement are:
1) This is how the factory installed roofs.
2) 58+ pound weight savings.
3) Perfect profile. Identical to the OEM roof.
4) No filler.








"Shaved" bumpers.





New interior. The headliner, which started it all was replaced. Also the dash, kneepads, door cards, rear quarters, pillars, seats, carpets, insulation etc, all in leather.

[famoroso]

What a BEAUTY!

Thanks to this post, I pulled the trigger with Perfect Lines. I'm picking the car up, post sunroof-ectomy, this week.

[germanwheels]

Frank Amoroso, your roof looks great. Perfect Lines is doing great work. They have become masters at roof replacements.

[famoroso]

Picked up Vents from Perfect Lines today. I'm happy to say it looks like they did a great job on the sunroof delete...











I started my drive down to Encinitas / Carlsbad at 12:30p. Got 47 miles in and had the most bizarre brake failure...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/1097991-name-brake-failure-mode-pedal-goes-floor-w-o-warning-stranded.html#post11394251

Anywho, making my way the rest of the way down from the passenger seat of this flatbed tow truck...





Comprehensive brake system inspection pending tomorrow.

[germanwheels]

The results look great. Congratulations.

[famoroso]

Originally Posted by germanwheels

The results look great. Congratulations.

Indeed. Thanks for starting this thread at the precise time I was A) struggling with the to delete or not to delete decision and B) searching for a local-ish shop that I could trust to do the job correctly.

Also, I originally thought that the roof replacement method required cutting the A and C pillars and your detailed explanation of the roof skin removal and replacement process educated me otherwise.

Now that I see the delete in person, I have zero buyer's remorse / regrets.