25 Pictures of 1 Crash (High Speed Connections Only)

[island911]

Originally posted by Porsche Bob
. . . but let’s put this into perspective. You posted this into a public forum, technical nonetheless, . ..

Well I'm glad that no one (else) is touching this point. It really helps keep this thread on the ABSURD side.

I love the OT stuff that stays on the mainboard, strictly due to WHO is posting. . . .These always make for the best train-wrecks.

[on-ramp]

Originally posted by island911
Well I'm glad that no one (else) is touching this point. It really helps keep this thread on the ABSURD side.

I love the OT stuff that stays on the mainboard, strictly due to WHO is posting. . . .These always make for the best train-wrecks.

Island, why do you always feel the need to end your posts with a ?

[SLO-BOB]

Originally posted by island911
Well I'm glad that no one (else) is touching this point. It really helps keep this thread on the ABSURD side.

I love the OT stuff that stays on the mainboard....

But isn't that the way it always goes? The original post definitely belongs here....... I think. But as always, the thread goes from tech informative to O.T. cat fight in short order.

Based on these brilliant insights I have only only two questions-

Bob-where do you live in Wisconsin?

and..

What the heck is a 82 Carrera??

[Porsche Bob]

so what's your point?

My point is, it's a shame we can't have a technical discussion in a technical forum. THE DEFENDERS OF MIGHTY YE’ BROUGHT FORTH FIERCE AND DELIBERATE HALT.......to a thread that had great learning potential.

[ted]

Originally posted by Porsche Bob
Like I said before, if this was anyone else, my points would have been brought up on page #1, most likely defended and constructively analyzed.

Bob if Jack could have caught the slide do you really think completing the 180 degree turn with the surrounding tire wall was a high percentage option?

The risk is his attempts to save it may have delayed his impact, albeit at higher speed and perhaps at a more dangerous frontal impact angle. I don't see any available escape path?

With the limited photos I can see It looks like classic trailing throttle oversteer, if so perhaps the most common 911 spin of all.

At the local PCA schools we teach both feet in. If you choose to power slide a save for 50 yards you still risk hitting obstructions and create havoc for the pack trying to anticipate your actions.

In your bag of tricks don't discount both feet in.

Jack as a leader? Let's say he's full disclosure, no ego willing to share his awkward moments. He's in LA now but imho he's kept the best of his mid-west background with him.

I'd do everything to miss the tire wall just to avoid that skank tire water!

A full face helmet and shield would have kept his mug dry.

[TD in DC]

Originally posted by ted At the local PCA schools we teach both feet in. If you choose to power slide a save for 50 yards you still risk hitting obstructions and create havoc for the pack trying to anticipate your actions.

In your bag of tricks don't discount both feet in.

I haven't heard anybody saying that both feet in should be discounted. I think we had the beginnings of a good discussion about the proper time to employ that technique. I have already expressed my opinion in my mini-novel first post. What say you?

[Winterfarm]

This bbs is an amazing place. P-Bob has about 20 posts to his name and you guys with thousands and thousands of posts are all so fixated on him. He must really be hitting home with whatever it is that he is doing or saying. Sometimes in life, the thing that bothers people the most is that which is the most insightfully and accurately challenging to their structural concepts and perceived world order. Two thumbs up and three rousing cheers as well for P-Bob for being true to himself and for struggling on behalf of truth, justice, and, oh yes, the American way.

[mjshira]

no, no and no. the main point is being respectful. We chimmed in because we thought the level of respect for Jack was off. And we would have if people were being rude to PBob.

We did because we remember the board as being a bit smaller than it is today. People carried themselves, and many still do, with a level of respect for each other and that made it a place that Jack, and others, felt free to share, even those moments that really don't make you look that cool, like this minor crash.

The point is - this is a public sandbox. When you come to share in its use, some of us expect you to respect those that have been there awhile, like say, more than 10,000 posts?

[ted]

Originally posted by TD in DC

This leads to the question of when it is appropriate to go "both feet in."

I can't armchair this spin anymore than I have.
Other than once the car went wide offline in the dust and marbles, the hot tires would have been coated with clag and his grip would have been reduced to poor or nil.

The safety aspect of both feet in is that the car will continue closer to it's present heading. This helps the rest of the pack make an early and hopefully successfully choice for avoidance.

Your point of when to use both feet in relates well to to an accident avoidance drill. Where instead of a basic panic brake lockup you swerve to avoid impact. I don't think swerving would have missed that wrap around wall.

I have not heard the 30% longer stopping distance but I would agree that threshold or cadence braking when the car is still pointed forward allows for useful steering inputs.

Imho once the rear comes around though its a good time to stop (both feet in) the vehicle.

Hope that was flame free and on topic.

[byndbad914]

Crazy thread...

PBob's comments are maybe right, maybe wrong. Can't go back in time, stick him in the seat and try it out.

That said, it is all in the tone of the response... PBob, just take a minute to reread your first post. In the future, you may simply want to proofread your post with the Preview Reply button and check your tone, that is all. Here is an example of what I mean:

You walk out of your house and out of the corner of your eye, a baseball is coming for your head from the neighbor kids playing ball. You quickly react (split second stuff, kinda like 100mph into a corner sideways) and drop to your knees and cover your head. Scuff your jeans and hurt your knee a bit.

But the neighbor was videoing the kids playing and after reviewing the tape for about 5 minutes (not split second stuff in hindsight), comes over and says, "Hey that was just a wiffle ball, you coulda just turned and caught it... kinda funny... hindsight is 20/20."

Or, he just says, "What is your problem, all you had to do was catch the ball. Why fall to the ground and cover your head. That was foolish and uncalled for and you scared the children and like an idiot ruined your jeans."

I would laugh with the first comment, and punch the neighbor in the f'ing mouth for the second.

I think you meant the 1st and wrote the 2nd. Trust me, I am not slamming you, or saying I want to punch you or anything like that, because I have stuck my foot in my mouth more than once simply based on tone. I have a scar under my right eye for having that tone as a younger man and needing to put my money where my tone was, learned the hard way to just relax the tone, and frankly, others that now don't like you may have been onboard with you.

Just chill out a little. Maybe watch the Big Labowski and have a black Russian with The Dude And remember, freedom of speech isn't an excuse to be rude and condescending.

[BW911]

Geez, now it's flame Porsche Bob. All he did was offer a perspective outside the prevailing one. Hardly like getting hit in the head with a wiffle ball, or whatever your analogy is. Seems to me the people who need to cool off a bit are the ones who won't lay off one dissenter's view. I guess you need an asbestos suit to disagree with the 10k posters here.

[VaSteve]

Originally posted by BW911
I guess you need an asbestos suit to disagree with the 10k posters here.

Nah, People disagree with Supe all the time!

[island911]

Originally posted by Sebring77
But isn't that the way it always goes? The original post definitely belongs here....... I think. But as always, the thread goes from tech informative to O.T. cat fight in short order.
. . .

Considering that JO had posted all about his crash, in an earlier thread, I would have to conclude that this was a 'Hey, you guys, check-out these cool picks of that wreck I was talking about last week.'

It's cool that JO posted them, and all. . . .but c'mon, this is hardly a technical thread. (even from the start)

The defense Jack is getting stems much from people who want him to continue to post his stories. . . .. afraid that one critical post will SHATTeR his fragile ego, and have him running away from here.

I've met Jack, and know his hisory here. I easily conclude that he doesn't need rescuing from a lone critical post. -sheesh.

[tabascobobcat]

Wow. This all seems so left or right. No common middle ground, .......except for JO. Maybe that's why he is so respected on this form.

[tabascobobcat]

P-Bob,
Not to stray from the subject, but any relation to Marty ??

[Jack Olsen]

TD in DC, it'd be fine to discuss car control options after a car's wheels have locked up. But if you knew this turn, you'd see that a discussion about it in relation to this crash wouldn't be very useful. Turn 11 is a 4th-to-2nd hairpin where you come down from 110 or so mph and brake very deep pointed at a tire wall that wraps around you a full 180 degrees. If your wheels lock up and your rear end starts to come around, you're done. It's a very short trip to the wall at that point, and there aren't any escape routes available.

If P-Bob was trying in earnest to start any kind of technical discussion, it would have been the first time he ever did it here. His posting history on this board is short. Most of his posts have been either in the off-topic forum or in this thread. He introduced himself in April, having just bought a '1982 Carrera'. He got a warm welcome from members of the BBS.

His next post was in a thread of mine, where he started his thread with:

- Cool writeup, but why does everone love the Jack Olsen? ...

He moved on to other threads, where he offered items like:

- Thats the worst waste of time I've seen.

- Can I be part of the cool guy clan?

- artiste's, sheesh

That's about it. I haven't seen any help offered, and his posts generally don't concern themselves with anything technical. He likes to post funny pictures. It's probably safe to say he enjoys stirring things up and getting attention.

[TD in DC]

JO, OK, that's helpful. Do you happen to have a map handy to show where the accident happened? Not really trying to "armchair quarterback," as I think you understand, but I am trying (1) to see if my thinking on this topic is correct so that I can apply it during my next "oh *****" moment and (2) to suggest that there "might" have been another potential alternative (i.e., threshold brake longer before going to both feet in) for you to ponder as you relive the incident (I always relive those types of moments). It is helpful to hear your thoughts on it, because only you can know why you made the choices you did.

I personally don't really care about the PB issue. But it does seem like a few around here have Man Crushes on you, not that there is anything wrong with that. Of course, that's not your fault or concern.

[Fishcop]

Originally posted by TD in DC
[BI personally don't really care about the PB issue. But it does seem like a few around here have Man Crushes on you, not that there is anything wrong with that. Of course, that's not your fault or concern.[/B]

Christ, that just cracked me up Tears in my eyes and all...

But if you ever meet Jack in person, you'll know just how Man Crushable he is... And I've accepted that there's nothing wrong with it!

[BlackTalon]

Originally posted by TD in DC
JO, OK, that's helpful. Do you happen to have a map handy to show where the accident happened? Not really trying to "armchair quarterback," as I think you understand, but I am trying (1) to see if my thinking on this topic is correct so that I can apply it during my next "oh *****" moment and (2) to suggest that there "might" have been another potential alternative (i.e., threshold brake longer before going to both feet in) for you to ponder as you relive the incident (I always relive those types of moments). It is helpful to hear your thoughts on it, because only you can know why you made the choices you did.

Good post. Classy!

[TD in DC]

Originally posted by BlackTalon
Good post. Classy!

You see, JO isn't the only person who is the object of man crushes!