911 re-body, from RSR+ to the EVO2.
 

This was the shape of my 1969 911T.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1148229374.jpg
I was at a major decision point on the project.
The front and rear bumpers and the 2 running boards are all one off prototype pieces.
To continue 4 separate molds would need to be made of the 2 bumpers and 2 running boards.
That would be roughly $4,000+ for four molds.
Plus another $1,200+ for the first 4 parts I made with the new molds.
So cost to be able to replicate (forever) in stronger and lighter weight fiberglass about $5k+.

Another consideration was the huge rear flares.
They were fit for a 27 inch tall tire and I wanted to return to a 25.5 tall tire.
To continue the rear flare would need to be reshaped.

I chose to abort the RSR+ bodywork.
Imho it made sense with respect to aero, weight, $$$ spent and $$$ to be spent, resale value and cool factor.
Another long hood bites the dust.:(

The new body will be similar to the 993 EVO2.
The EVO2 body should have better Aero, less drag and save about 200lbs.

Here are some in progress photos.
The body transformation should be complete in about 2 weeks.
My go to guy on this project is John Simone.
Located in north San Diego he has completed 18 of these transformations out of his garage.
10 street cars and 8 race cars.
This version is a street legal race car.;)

The EVO2 style nose is actually a 993 part.
Here I am modifying the front tub for the EVO2 nose and side cooler plenums.
Note on the floor in the back ground the EVO2 nose and black oil cooler plenums.
Can in the front center of the tub is the front air jack.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1148232524.jpg
The tub's new shape clears the 993 side mounted coolers and plenums.
These photos show where John has fabricated and welded the replacement panels.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1148232630.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1148232679.jpg
The new tub from the outside.
Here I'm modifying the early firewall to accept a late model dual brake M/C.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1148233885.jpg

That's going to be nice


:)

Ted, you crack me up. Nice work, its gonna be flippin sweet.

Thanks guys. :)
You can tell spring is here as I've cut my off my rear fenders again.;)
The new fender mounting flanges have been sanded back down to bare metal.
Dzus fastened fiberglass fenders are next.
The cable feed for the tail base latch was removed.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1148236101.jpg
John is a very capable guy.
He makes his own molds and body parts.
Here the rear fenders still in their molds receive final prep.
Note the rock cushion on the inside of the fender.
This consists of a light wieght cushion material that was kept dry (resin free) and light.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1148236239.jpg
The rear fender is fitted to the car.
This mold incorporates the bolt on flare into the fender.
Later bolts could be added to create the effect that the flare was actually bolted to the fender.
This mold also incorporates part of the running board.
Note John has made and already fitted his light weight fiberglass door.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1148236291.jpg
John checks the door gaps on the passenger side.
Door finish is very nice and light weight.
They include the window channel and finished interior too.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1148237760.jpg
Here the inside hood piece is bonded to the out side hood piece.
It is rather a luxury to discuss with John how light to make a part moments before he starts on it.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1148238411.jpg

Mike-
I'm glad you have released your secret. I saw the car and would have walked right by it had Mike not asked, "what do you think of my car??) :D :D It looks very nice! The new cooling system is very trick, as well and won't add to lift at the front, like many of the early cars.

Having seen the old fenders upclose - I know Mike's car is losing some big time weight here!
Street legal, low-weight and improved AERO! What could be better?

GREAT project!

Doug

WOW!! Awesome work man. Thanks for sharing the pics:D

Re: 911 re-body, from RSR+ to the EVO2.
 

This is like the 'big daddy' version of Chris Streit's recent upgrade/update.

I'm sad to see another long-hood racer disappear, but the bottom line is the bottom line: if you want to go faster, you've got to go to the later technology and design. The early body design was not great from an aero or weight point of view. The later stuff is a huge step forward.

And that car is going to be shooting by so fast that no one will be able to see the body style anyway. ;)

You must poop money. Looks very nice!

Thanks guys glad you are enjoying the photos.
DW, nice of you and Jim to stop by.
It was a fun lunch, project progress took the afternoon off.http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/...s/beerchug.gif

Jack hope we can share a canyon road someday soon.;)

The front fenders are fitted to the car.
The new fender weighs about 6lbs, the old RSR+ front fenders were closer to 23lbs.
Counting all 4 fenders that could be a 70lb+ reduction.
These will be secured via SS Allen button heads with self locking nut plates riveted to the fiberglass.
Functioning headlights will be installed.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1148240729.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1148240750.jpg
John made these fenders to fit his other nose, an EVO 1 style that he modifies from an AIR part.
Here is a photo of another car John bult with his EVO1 style nose.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1148243207.jpg
The EVO2 nose also an AIR (993) part is approximately 1.5 inches wider on each side.
So we'll modify the fender to blend it into the EVO2 nose.
John's next front fender molds will be matched to the EVO2 nose.
Good to know should I ever need a front fender.
The nose has been fitted to the car, checking the fender fit.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1148241303.jpg
Next week we should have the car on the ground with the rear bumper, tail base/wing, running boards and front fenders finished.SmileWavy

That is going to look great, I have seen a few of John's cars and they are all beautiful, and fast! Now you've got me thinking about another project....

Have you figured out how you're going to paint it yet?

I've had this picture saved on my computer for a while:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1148244243.jpg

I am very curious to see how much a decrease in lap time the more efficient body pieces results in.

What is an estimated guess for a relatively fast track like Willow?

Tinker

Cory great car, man I had been thinking a dark blue.
But having watched the Tribute Saturday I found it difficult to see the darker colors.
Then you post that and white is looking real good.
Besides it was the color of the car before.

Tinker as for aero advantage I don't know how to accurately say?
Some have said over the length of a long straight like Cal Speedway it could be one or two car lengths.

The car ran 1:27s with the old body at Big Willow.
If should run quicker now from the aero gain and the 200lb reduction.
There is a boatload of variables, perhaps many I'm not even aware of.
Back to grass roots, so if you could say how much faster this car would be if it was 200lbs lighter, say that were a tenth or two then maybe any gains above that are aero? :)

Maybe someone can offer a little more scientific answer?
What is the drag coefficient of an EVO2 compared to an old RSR or to an old 935?
Safe to say mine had a higher drag coefficient than the old RSR cars.

Wow dude. Like the long hood is but a memory now. Good to see your evolution!

Be safe.

Regards,

Ted, i had the perfect setup for you!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?threadid=283739

Quickie update.
Front tin work finished/painted.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1149058439.jpg
Front bumper with John's 993 brake ducts installed.
Front turn signal (not yet installed in photo) was modified to fit beside the brake duct.
The lower center ducts direct air over plenum mounted oil coolers.
The air then exits through the triangle shaped side ducts.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1149058736.jpg
Close up of the blended brake duct.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1149058773.jpg
Inside the front bumper.
John makes these large black plenum's that hold the oil coolers.
The opening at the top is where the cooler slides in.
A cap then covers the opening forcing the air over the cooler.
Back of brake duct visible.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1149058860.jpg
Here's the tail base and Dzus fastened rear bumper.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1149058925.jpg

Slicker than snot!

Thanks Scott.

Here is where it is after 4 weekends.
Street legal and licenced track car.
Transformation should be complete next weekend.
Just a little track prep and then a local DE mid July.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1149062495.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1149062558.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1149062574.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1149062596.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1149062656.jpg

That looks beautiful..... I always loved the 993 GT2 body style.

When you had the RSR body, how was the power from the stock
3.6? With tires like that it looks like your going to need 4-500 HP to even think about breaking the rear end loose or were you able to spin the tires in 2nd with the old RSR?

Cant wait to see your lap time's

Wowee Zowie....

Makes my conversion to the 965 look like a walk in the park. Very nice job!

Hi Herman,
Yes it is prime now for a 550 hp 996 twin turbo drive train.;)
That's not in my budget and not sure going that fast is my goal.
The 3.6 made 306hp at the rear wheels.
Engine specs and Dyno sheets here.
Here are some tire to hp ratio comments from Cary owner of ERP.
But to answer your question in the middle of Big Willow T2 (fast right sweeper) in 4th gear at 80+ mph power oversteer is still very attainable. :eek:
It is a momentum car but that style of driving suits me.
It ran a 1:27 on its second weekend out.
With the changes and as I get acclimated to it the times should improve.
Anyone know of a big turbo motor cheap?:)
thanks,
Mike


Cary's comments on the tire to hp ratio...

Thanks for the compliment Chris.
As you know rarely anything is a true bolt on with a conversion regardless of the shape of the body part.
In the past John had so much time into adding the 4 inch fender flares he made new fender molds with the small flares incorporated into the fender.
When I saw the four small flares you added to your new fenders I knew you had some time into those. :)
The fact you were doing an engine rebuild during your re body makes your accomplishment more a marathon in the park.SmileWavy
Good luck and continued success racing!

My 5 year slide down the 911 performance slope.

5 years ago.
R Gruppe Cambria.
Just the way I bought it from Alain Jamar of POC.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1149093457.jpg

The AX bug bites with DOT tires.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1149093512.jpg

17 inch rims in wild colors.;)
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1149093824.jpg
At Laguna Seca, the brake heat faded the red rims to pink. :rolleyes:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1149093858.jpg

15 inch cantilevers slicks, fun slip angles and a TTOD.:D
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1149093966.jpg

The Peter Gregg look and it's 1st w2w race.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1149094309.jpg
Fun and a busted splitter with the Alfa club, I'll be back.:)
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1149094478.jpg
Had to fix the splitter so this was the quick fix.:eek:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1149094540.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1149094561.jpg
John Simone's conversion looked like the next and dare I say last logical step.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1149094700.jpg

Two newbie questions, what are cantilever slicks and what is TTOD?

Cantilever slicks were/are slicks designed to get around sanctioning bodies limitation on rim widths. The sidewalls were cantilevered inward to allow much wider tread than otherwise would fit on a narrow rim. If you compare the "pink rim" pic and the one with the timing light in the foreground you'll notice the difference in the sidewalls extending beyound the rim in the latter which are the cantilevered slicks.

TTOD=Top Time Of Day (i.e., FTD)

I saw this car last December at Willow (top pic) and I have to admit I thought the rear flare area was a bit "flat". The new body on this car is sooooo smooth and looks fantastic. This is truly a beautiful car and can't wait to see it in person one of these days. Great job.

Are you racing Willow Springs soon? I can't recall if you were going out with ACRA/OTR guys in June or the POC maybe??

Thanks for the interest guys.
Yes Chuck's cartoon about sums up my lack of grip on the Porsche performance slope.
But I plan to grab a ledge asap.
Maybe see you at Big Willow this fall?

Thanks Tim, yeah the flat flare was the look we were after with the taller 27.5 slicks and super low stance.
Since I went to a 25.6 inch slick and raised the car .75in now it all fits under the 993 EVO flares.
Raising it can't hurt my A-arm and CV joint angles.

If the car is ready I'd certainly like to do the OTR track day, if not maybe the next one?
Yes to POC. I'd like to do the fall racer's clinic.

Perhaps attend some PCA club races and TTs along with selected Alfa Club races.

We need a thread on your 914 full chassis beast. :)

Sick!!!

That car is just cool period, can ask what wheels you are using, Kevin

Jeez, Mike, didn't you just recently finish the car at Jae's???


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=207216&highlight=jae+le e

Someone on that thread said you were a sick man....... ;)

Mike is on the black diamond version of the Porsche slippery slope.

And frankly, I am very jealous. ;)

ah, we are finally outing ourselves...

sorry to see the fattttassss go (will it live again on another body?) but I've always loved the 993 Evo look. Two drastic transformations in such a short time....damn I'm jealous! http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/pray.gif

Hi Milt,
Yes and it's going right back to Jae's (Mirage) for a corner balance after the re-body. But Jae didn't do the old flare job. That was an LA body shop, Axiom.

Sick yes but I think this website is part of the reason!;)

Good luck on your 911 hunt.
Mike

Jack you have been the master of your domain.
Showing good restraint limiting your car mods lately to a new paint job, new tires and gas. Now I'm jealous.:D
Could there be another track/street project in your future?

These projects remind me of the guy on ebay trying to sell George Washington's axe: He had to replace the handle and the head, but intrinsically it occupies the same space so it really was George's axe;)

WONDERFUL project...it amazes me the evolution these cars are amenable to. Can you imagine trying to update a 69 Vette to a 2006 C6 racecar?

Hi Kevin,
The gold wheels were just loaners but they are very nice ones, BBS.
The wheels on the EVO now are CCW wheels.
Only about 2k a set for the front 17x10.5s and rear 17x13s.
have fun,
Mike

Hey Mike, are you planning on doing the GT2 Evo style Top Banana wing or keep the rear the same as currently pictured?

Sad to see the RSR+ was gone, I really liked reading the build on it. But the GT2 body style will also be my favorite of the 911's. :D

Thanks, John and I had the same conversation last weekend.
Pretty amazing that the same roof line and wheel base specs survived from 69 to what 98?
A 997 look would be awesome too but move involved.:)