Interior knowledge

I am starting to organise my retrimming, so here go a couple of questions, mostly relating to how they used to do it in 1974/5.

Was it standard to have vertical pleats in the rear seats but horizontal ones in the front?

I am probably going to go with vinyl trim, except for leather facing on the seats (like on the 80's Carrera's) - am I being clever or just cheap?

Door pockets - my "high quality" original german flimsy cardboard crap pockets are warped. What have you guys done to fix/recondition/replace? Bear in mind that the 1974/5 pockets are covered in vinyl not carpet.

Thanks for help!!

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Cameron Baudinet
1975 911S

Cameron,
If the pockets aren't too out of shape you can reshape them at your stove with a tea kettle of steaming water, Just don't rush it or the card board will crack. This is done much like the way hats are shaped.

Bobby 72' TE coupe
72' Targa

[This message has been edited by Bobboloo (edited 10-31-2000).]

Whenever I'm doing the straightening of these cardboard pockets I also:

-(sometitmes) sneak a flat piece of steel or aluminum around the edges at the top (pop-rivetted thru the cardboard)

-(always) put 90 degree angle strips (or just short brackets) of aluminum or steel at the bottom (that's where your arm-weight causes the pockets to sag to the point that the screw holes are "raised" a half-inch above their original location) and then provide new screw holes thru the metal

--- both of the above I've managed to hide under the leather or carpet (vinyl might be a little thin to completely hide it) by peeling it back first and then regluing with 3M upholstery glue.

-and I also pop-rivet on a double layer of tin or thin steel to the perpendicular brace (where the handle attaches) because I've found this keeps the thing from splitting at the single (double?) screw (bolt? --- can't remember) and pulling out at the handle area (I can't recall if my 74 had this or not but my 82 does). I paint it black when done.

Nobody ever notices any of these "improvements" and my pockets look almost new (no sag) and last a lot longer.

I've never tried the "steaming-method" --- sounds like a good idea... I've usually eased mine into shape by slowly adding the "bracing" (that Porsche should have put in there in the first place!)

On the other hand you can buy the expensive fiberglass units but I alway go for the cheap fix since it's more of a challenge (fun ) than just "buying" perfection.

BTW ---- the line drawings in the 74-77 factory manual shows vertical pleats in the rear upholstery and horizontal pleats in the front... that's also what I remember was in my 74 Targa. Other than that I recall that all of my other 74 upholstery was "plain" (no pleating --- unlike the later ones that have diagonal pleats in the door panels and...)

Also, BTW, if you're looking to save money --- forget the vinyl --- go buy half or a full cowhide in the color of your choice direct from an upholsterer's wholesale shop (or your local bootery supply --- lotsa those here in Texas). Most of the interior is nothing but flat panels of vinyl or leather that can be "slowly" peeled off. Then use those to make new patterns on your "cow" and (if it was leather especially) add an inch or so around the pattern to account for previous or future shrinkage, then just glue it back on with 3M upholstere's spray-on glue. For about $100 or so you've got a new leather interior and that great smell!

As for the seats, you'll want that done by an upholsterer to match. Personally, I replace my facings (where your fanny goes) with a contrasting-colored cloth. I find that is always comfortable no matter what the weather and looks especially good if I use 2 complimentary colors for the various panels. It doesn't cost much more than all one color snce they have to stitch it up in panels anyway (or maybe I've forgotten that the later models have panels where the earlier ones don't... hmmmm). Cloth facing is just my preference --- to each their own.

I've done my Targa's this and gotten by for about $1000 for a complete interior redo.

Another hint.

If you find your seatbelts going south on you (especially if you have the kind that go over the shoulder and go thru those guides just behind your head...), get some of the seatbelt webbing from your upholsterer and do it yourself. Mine are jamming real bad (they're raggedy and folding over at the guide spot causing them to jam) and I just couldn't bring myself to buy the whole assembly new (or used off ebay) just because my mechanisms were good --- just bad belts. I was looking at up to $1000 to replace them !

Got the webbing at $1.95 a yard!!!! --- in my choice of standard colors (I'm going silver to compliment my gray two-tone interior with black leather all-around)! Matching spool of appropriate thread for about $10. Bought about 12 yards and my upholsterer is going to stitch them for me for about $10. It's a legal thing that they have to be done in a certain "lock-stitch-something-or-other" and (I'll feel better than doing them by hand anyway )

Now, I just have to make sure I thread them back thru all the mechanisms (winder, guide, etc.) correctly before I give them to my "stitcher-upper" guy.

Total cost will be about $50 versus $1000?

I'm on a roll here...

Carpet can also be DIY too with help from your upholstery supply wholesaler and a cooperative "stitcher-upper" guy. But DON'T try to use your "significant-other's" home machine on leather or carpet or even vinyl --- you'll break a lot of needles and probably ruin the machine (course, this could also be a goooood way to get out of that old emotional entanglement so you can devote full time to your new 911 love!!!!! )

I redid the interior in my 71 for about under $50. My interior was completely shot. The original red leather would crumble in your hands. I needed to replace the entire interior.

I bought a 4x8 sheet of 1/4" fiberboard
($4.50, home Depot) and cut new panels using the old ones as templates. I got rid of the map pockets. I was missing the rear ones and the front ones were not repairable. The rear panel under the window was the hardest to fabricate. I cut two peices of board and made a canvas hinge to complete the bend.

The new panels were then covered in 1/4" headliner foam(3 yds @ $5/yd) using 3M spray adhesive($8/can). I sewed the pleated covers in vinyl(3 yds @ $7/yd). YOu can check out the new interior at my website:
http://www4.ncsu.edu/~jpnovak

I followed the vertical pleats for my 71. I chose the vinyl for cost. I did not care if the car was completely original. I just wanted to stop the flapping panels. the rear made a lot of noise with the top out and I was tired of getting hit in the head with bits of leather. hope this helps some.

Jamie 71 911T targa

jpnovak...

Very nice --- I agree with the fiberboard, I've used that myself but ...did you do the seat recoverings too? If so, well done! How did you manage that? Did you do the sewing on a home machine? I never tried vinyl before --- is it thin enough to do on a home machine?

CamB...

As jpnovak sez, you can also get various thicknesses of foam-type stuff from your uphosterer supply as well. If you do leather or other heavy material that can't be done on a home machine but still want to do the stitching yourself thru the leather and thru the foam and possibly a carboard-type material (I don't think you can get thru fiberboard with this method) you can also get two hand tools from your leather-supply place (or via a mail order catalog from a place I know of) that will mark the leather with evenly placed stitch marks and then another tool called a "Lockstitch Sewing Awl" that will punch thru and "sew" the thread thru on these marks (it has a little reel that holds the thread while your punching a needle thru --- leaving a lockstitch-loop on the other side)

[This message has been edited by tog (edited 11-01-2000).]

Great tips guys!! I will be involve in my own interior proyect,my question is what do i do with the top part of the door panels? they look like they are plastic are they? and where can i buy the carpeting for the floor? any tips.
THANK YOU
JUAN RUIZ
88,911 carrera turbo

While we're on the subject of interior projects...

Has anyone reupholstered their own seats? How about advice on cleaning up early recliners (black ones)?



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Greg
72 911S

Juan --- no, the bar at the top of the (front) panels is a special piece that is made by some special process (I don't know what the process is) and the dash and other parts are also this same "bonded" material (Mercedes does the same thing and probably other car mfg.s) I've cut into it and find it to be a thin plastic-type material shell sorta "painted-on" to a yellow hard-foam backing which was initially sprayed onto a metal plate form (obviously this is done in a mold of some kind).

So, IMHO you have 3 choices: Buy a new part if yours is really shot; Touchup with leather-dye; Attempt to recover in some material (I've used leather) but then you have to be prepared for some realistic-looking stitching joins since you will have some "corners" that simply don't have any way to let you fold the excess over and glue it down.

I remember the 76 Turbos (and maybe standard model "options" as well) had leather dashes and other "cornered" parts that had this beautiful stitching at those corners but I've also seen the effects of the sun shrinking the leather in years afterward and it ain't pretty. You're probably better to go with method 1 or 2 in those areas and parts.

[This message has been edited by tog (edited 11-01-2000).]

[This message has been edited by tog (edited 11-01-2000).]

Juan --- I forgot to mention that I find auto carpet at upholsterer wholesale suppliers as well. True auto carpet is different from house carpet and is really thinner and not as stiff. You can get the "edging" there as well and I usually use the old carpet as my pattern for the new. The old doesn't shrink (might even have stretched a little) so you don't need to cut it larger as with the leather).

Also, forgot to mention that leather comes in numerous thicknesses, stiffness, "tanning" purposes, and other assorted variations. If a leather supply place knows their stuff then just tell them where it's going to be used (decorative, wear-intensive, sunlight-exposure) and they should be able to recommend the right variation for each purpose. If they seem to not point you to specific stuff to match your particular needs, go elsewhere. The stuff is to expensive to guess at getting it right.
And, no, it doesn't come on "bolts" like cloth --- if it does it AIN'T leather. True leather will be shaped just like a skinned cow (which, obviously, is exactly what the real stuff is) and it will have minor imperfections here and there (holes, tears, blemishes) and usually have little identical pressure marks it various corners where it was held by clamps for drying and "tanning". You can't repair these types of marks --- you have to plan your pattern pieces around them.

oops --- double entry deleted

[This message has been edited by tog (edited 11-01-2000).]

tog- No I did not recover the seats. I believe they were done at some point during the car's life. Although I could not find the records for it. I did find the new carpet receipt. I am curious as to the original covering of the seats. My seats are the original factory Recaro Sport Seats. They are listed on the bill of sale. I am not sure if they came in leather or vinyl. If it was vinyl then this may be the original covering. Anyone know more about these seats? They appear to be rare since I have not seen any cars that had them stock.

As far as sewing, I used a home maching borrowed from a coworker. I installed a heavy needle and started sewing. The vinyl I bought was relatively thin and the machine did not have a problem. The only problems were breaking thread since I did not know how to sew. I practiced on a scrap piece. I caught a bunch of crap from my wife making fun of me. She did not laugh as much when they were finished and installed. The laughter changed to astonishment( I was pretty suprised they came out so well).

The top piece's on the door and rear were in good condition. I only cleaned them before reinstalling. The only modification was to the armrests. there were two tabs that hang down to attach the door pockets. They looked funny on top of the vinyl so I removed them with a hacksaw and cleaned them up with a large flat file. You are right about the funny plastic on foam. I wonder if you could make a mold reproduce the peice. then use some of that plastic paint or rubber coating to coat it. could be a way to make that impossible to find item. well enough for now. back to work

Jamie
71 911T targa

jpnovak --- don't feel to odd about sewing. My significant other was floored when she discovered I could knit! Seems my mom taught me when I was too young to know that guys DON'T knit one, pearl two, knit one, pearl two, knit one, pearl two, knit one, pearl two, knit one, pearl two, knit one, pearl two, .....

Thanks guys!

I would like to do it myself but am finding that I am too time constrained to get it finished in a realistic timeframe. But you are right - interior upholstry doesn't seem to be rocket science just taking lots of time and using the right materials.

So upshot is I am going to have to pay $$$.

Thanks especially for the door pocket info - that I will definitely tackle myself.

Any more thoughts? You guys did good in that last few hours!!

Cam

OK you've read all of the word about this venture take a look at my web site :
http://members.rennlist.com/5150targa

and go to interior restoration.

I did this job over X-mas vacation last year. I had never done done it before, but it was fun a very satisfying to see what you've accomplished when you finish it.



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Tom Sharpes
90 C2 Targa
http://members.rennlist.com/5150targa