Alternative Fuel Injectors

[dfink]

OK I am sorry that this is somewhat of a cross post from the 4-sale item forum. The discussion has been presented that there are alternative fuel injectors available for the 84-89 3.2 engines that are a direct bolt in replacement and that can be purchased new for as little as $30.00.
Having just replaced my injectors with new Bosch I will tell you the cheapest new price I could find was $122.00 ea.
Marren was suggested as an alternative as well as some prices being compared for domestic cars. I don't want to compare injectors from other cars for this discussion as they do not apply and can be purchased as low as $26.00
Does anyone know of a direct replacement for the bosch injector that is both MUCH cheaper and as RELIABLE.
For those questioning my motives for this post i have 3 used for sale. I replaced all 6 when three of mine failed. I could not find any alternative to bosch injectors. This should not really be about the price I have set for my injectors but rather a discussion of availability and options.
WhichHunter anyhow does not sell used injectors so if a person had a couple of bad ones it seems an alternative to purchasing new would be to find some used and have them cleaned and tested. The final price would be about half of what new is and if they pass the cleaning and testing should last.
Let the flinging begin.

[Zeke]

No need to fling. I'm intersted as well. As I said in your FS ad, Witch Hunter sent me to another place for some used domestic injectors. There are a couple of sources on the Internet. They buy every injector they can from dismantlers, etc. by the barrel full. Then, they clean and test them, grouping them for flow. I bought 4 Rochesters for $99 shipped. They said they have any kind. I haven't followed up and I'm not going to divulge the source at this time unless I know they have dozens. At 24 bucks ea., I want a few for me first.

[Zeke]

Here's the follow up: No Bosch for the "deal." The source for other Finjectors is www.injectors4u.com

[Jeff Alton]

I have used Accel "bosch style" ones in the past with good results.

Cheers

[Nostril Cheese]

I've used Ford Mustang injectors in a BMW 3.5L with no issues. I imagine there should be some crossover.

[tobluforu]

I used these guys once for another car. great service and they have a heck of a selection.
http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/Injector_Sets.asp

[dfink]

I'm sorry but as far as I can tell none of the sites listed produce or supply a cheap alternative to the bosch injectors. Injectors for a BMW or a mustang or a pinto stationwagon are not direct replacement injectors for the bosch 0280-150-158 injector that is used on the 3.2 system.
It is however still up for discussion. I wish I wouldn't have had to spend what I did for injectors when I opted for all new but point is if you don't want to spend that kind of money used or rebuilt is probably going to be your best route. Unless someone has the cross reference. I was not able to find any accel fuel injectors listed for this engine.
Does anyone have any hard numbers (part number and price) to directly replace the number listed. I have found several different 24lb per hour injectors but I have no idea if they would work. If they are out there I can't find them.

[TimT]

I have found several different 24lb per hour injectors but I have no idea if they would work

Any injector that matches the impedance and flow of the Bosch injectors will work, the fuel rails injectors bosses and connectors are industry standards

Marren supplies us injectors for most of our project engines. We have been using them for years and havent had any issues with Marrens products or services.

So any 24# injector with matching impedance will work.. You seem fixed on having Bosch injectors, if so pay up for the name... There are altenatives to Bosch OE injectors

I don't want to compare injectors from other cars for this discussion as they do not apply and can be purchased as low as $26.00

Why dont injectors for other car apply? Why would you not buy an injector that costs $26 that is the same specs as a OE Bosch?

Ford Motorsport makes injectors, you can even get them from Summit for a reasonable price. Ford Motorsports 24# @ $38/ea.

[TimT]

BTW Im drawing a blank now whether Motronic needs a high or low impedance injector.. Take a multimeter, and measure the resistance ot the injector and proceed accordingly.

[Joeaksa]

Good thread. That usual price for injectors is pure BS, there is no black magic here and these should be sold at a more reasonable price.

[toolman]

Good Topic, I just pulled my injectors and i am getting ready to send them to Witchhunter for cleaning. I would rather get new ones but not for $600.

[TroyGT]

Summit Racing has the Accel 24# injectors in a set of six. Here's the part number: ACC-150624. Here's the specs, $216 bucks for a set of six:


Injector Advertised Flow Rate (cc/min): 255.0cc/min
Quantity: Sold as a set of 6.
Injector Impedance: 14.4 ohms
Driver Type: 12 V saturated circuit
Overall Height (in): 2.880 in.
Seat to Seat Height (in): 2.270 in.
Manifold O-Ring Outside Diameter (in): 0.573 in.
Fuel Rail O-Ring Outside Diameter (in): 0.574 in.
Outside Diameter (in): 0.943 in.
Injector Plug Style: Bosch/Amp Style

Does anyone have the specs on our Bosch counterpart? A simple match of specs should go a long toward telling us if mucho $$$ can be saved.

-Troy

[RickM]

FYI from other threads...

***Note Impedance ***


RickM: I believe the Carrera injectors are Bosch part # 0.280.150.158. Same as '86-'88 924S and 2/'85-'88 944 (Non-Turbo and Non-S)

240cc/min @ 45 PSI, 2.5 Bar pressure

BeepBeep: One source for injectors http://www.wmsracing.com/pgi-CustomListProducts?Fuel%20Injectors,2,160,=,inject or

Warren:
"Bentley manual says 3.2 Carrera injector specs are 2 - 3 Ohms."

FastPat:
"Model number: 0 280 150 158
Impedance: Low, 2.4 ohms
Flow rate: 229 cc/min @ 3 bar*
Flow rate in pounds/hour: 21.8"

Lukesportsman:
"Porsche used low impedence peak and hold injectors. Yes, the injector driver is the "limiting" factor. In theory and extreme applications the peak and hold has the performance advantage. In all, but the extreme, this isn't an issue today but certainly was 10 years ago.

Most the better priced injectors advertised in mag's are high impedance since they are more commonly used in OEM. Ford, GM, Holden, Honda etc. chose to go with the easy/cheaper to fire injectors. You can get conversion boxes to fire a different injector but this will eat the difference in $$ anyways. These were often used by say Mustang racers 10 years ago that went low impendance to find an injector big enough. You typically find very large expensive injectors in PH low impedance.

Long story short: DON"T BUY those. keep your PH concept and just buy different aftermarket ones of equal size. Little more for the injector, but less hassle."

[TroyGT]

Okay... here's one that is very close and is of PH type:

Brand: Accel
Product Line: Accel Fuel Injectors
Injector Advertised Flow Rate (lbs/hr): 24 lbs./hr.
Injector Advertised Flow Rate (cc/min): 255.0cc/min
Quantity: Sold individually.
Injector Impedance: 2.1 ohms
Driver Type: 4\1A peak and hold
Overall Height (in): 2.880 in.
Seat to Seat Height (in): 2.270 in.
Manifold O-Ring Outside Diameter (in): 0.383 in.
Fuel Rail O-Ring Outside Diameter (in): 0.406 in.
Outside Diameter (in): 0.975 in.
Injector Plug Style: Bosch/Amp Style

Would this be an acceptable replacement?

-Troy

[dfink]

So far the only low ohm injector I have been able to find is an accel 72lb per hour low ohm injectors. The are $89.95 and perhaps a bit large in the delivery rate at 3X the stock flow.
fuelinjectorsdirect.com does list a replacement for the stock unit at $64.95 each but does not state what the replacement is. I have not been able to find good specs for the marren injectors but they list their low impedance 26# injectors at 5-7.5 ohms. I don't know if this would effect anything and they are $65.00 each. It does not state that they are peek and hold.

If these injectors will work in an unmodified 84-89 3.2 then it would be nice know that and could save many some money. Perhaps PP could then list them as replacements and add them to the site.

[TroyGT]

Here's some really cool links on injector specs. I haven't had time to decipher them into anything usable, but the data we need should be here:

Stan Weiss' injector specs across brands and applications:
http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm

Bosch specs:
http://apps.bosch.com.au/motorsport/downloads/fuelinjectors.pdf

Good stuff...

-Troy

[dfink]

Originally posted by TroyGT
Okay... here's one that is very close and is of PH type:

Brand: Accel
Product Line: Accel Fuel Injectors
Injector Advertised Flow Rate (lbs/hr): 24 lbs./hr.
Injector Advertised Flow Rate (cc/min): 255.0cc/min
Quantity: Sold individually.
Injector Impedance: 2.1 ohms
Driver Type: 4\1A peak and hold
Overall Height (in): 2.880 in.
Seat to Seat Height (in): 2.270 in.
Manifold O-Ring Outside Diameter (in): 0.383 in.
Fuel Rail O-Ring Outside Diameter (in): 0.406 in.
Outside Diameter (in): 0.975 in.
Injector Plug Style: Bosch/Amp Style

Would this be an acceptable replacement?

-Troy

Do you remember where they were listed and what the price was. Also unfortunately the other bosch site does not list the 0280-150-158 and the accel site only list the high impedance. The specs are close the bosch seat to seat is 60.3mm or 2.37 in and the total height is 77mm or 3.034 in. I don't know if difference in height would effect anything or not.

[TroyGT]

Yeah... the listing above came from summitracing.com. I did a search on fuel injectors, then a sub-search on those results with 24lbs. I want to say that the last listing I gave was $64.

I was hoping that with the John Weiss data and the Bosch site data I could figure out a comparable alternative. The Weiss site above is awesome! Weird on the 158 part not being in the Bosch info.. I did notice that. Some other unconfirmed sites showed that the 85.5 - 91 944 cars used the same 158 injector. Still digging...

-Troy

[RickM]

Troy, Thanks for posting Stan Weiss's FI spec info.

Looks like the closest injector replacement is the Holley 520-8004 or 520-8005.

However, Bosch replacements can be had for under $65.

[RickM]

Originally posted by TroyGT
Some other unconfirmed sites showed that the 85.5 - 91 944 cars used the same 158 injector. Still digging...

-Troy

I listed the Porsche cross reference above.