Steering Column Bushing...

[Mitch Leland]

Russ,

I'm wondering if you turned a oil bronze bearing to replace the existing bearing and bushing and just let the steering shaft run on the bronze bearing? You could drill and tap two holes on the face of the bronze bearing for easy removal.

If Scott is correct then the fix is only a partial fix. What did you do to get the star washer out? Thanks for seeing this through...

[moneymanager]

For a really simple job this is getting awfully complex. At least two very competent Porsche mechanics have told me that the metal sleeve is really all you need, that the fix lasts "forever," and that there's hardly any reason ever to mess with the bearing. FWIW

[Mitch Leland]

Money Man,

You're probably right, we're just trying to improve the breed. However Scott wasn't happy with the new sleeve bushing fix so there might be room for improvement.

Plus if I lived in Santa Barbara I wouldn't worry about my steering sleeve either... You're a lucky guy.

[ramonesfreak]

note - when i installed the sleeve, my original bearing was not broken...so, i dont know what the steering wheel feels like with a broken bearing, but from the photos i have seen, i would guess the steering would be terribly loose because of the large gap from the missing plastic bushing. in that case, the sleeve would make a huge difference.

however, the sleeve seems like it could have been made slightly thicker so the steering is perfectly tight---which it is not, once the sleeve is in.

as for having to mess with it once its installed - not sure. i guess time will tell if damage occurrs. i have mine very well greased so there is no metal on metal scraping.

i have noticed that my sleeve "backs out" and ends up pushed up against the circlip...this probably happens after a few miles. this is not good. everythime i have taken my wheel off since installing the sleeve, the sleeve has been hanging out of where it is supposed to stay

i wonder sometimes if the reason why there are not more complaints about the sleeve is due to the fact that people installing them have experienced a sudden failure of the original bearing and the resulting and extreme loose steering. in that situation, the sleeve would then feel like a miracle cure.

all i am saying is, if your original bearing is ok for now, and your steering wheel is nice and firm, then buy the sleeve and stick it in the glove box until its needed

[trusouth]

Guys,

I would go with the sleeve and make sure it is tight on the column. I have one when the bushing breaks next time because it has been such a hassle to get everything out of the steering housing.

Here's how I took mine off without taking the entire steering column and mount off. Also, this is where I ran into trouble.

First I took everything off and got to the point where Rusnak is in the picture he posted.

2) Then I knocked out the inner race (thats where the ball bearings came from) with a punch after drilling it with a diamond bit.
3) Now the fun - You cant really drill the outer race without damaging the outer steering column housing. So you need a bearing or wheel puller.
4) I bought one at the auto parts store and ground the pull arms down so they would fit between the shaft and the bearing race.
5) You have to grind them own pretty thin, but it worked.
6) Once I got them in place -I just tightened the bolt on the puller and the old race came off.

Another post - used a different method

He drilled a hole in the housing and then took a metal rod and hit the bearing from behind. I tried it, but I could not get it to move. If you search you might find the old posting.

IMHO - go with the sleeve if you can make it work.

Mark

[rusnak]

well the sleeve comes right back out with not too much work. I think a slightly thicker sleeve would do the trick.

Edit:
Mitch, the star washer comes out pretty easily with a small right angle pick tool, just walk each prong one at a time, and it comes right out without damage. I am not familiar with oil bronze bushings. I wonder if one could be made to tap right down in place of the plastic and tightly fit between the steering shaft and the inner race? If so, then this would be a forever fix.


Monemanager, I can see how with continued use, dirt can cause wear on the steering column. I am seeing a polishing effect on my steering shaft already after less than 2 years, so I dont think the sleeve is a forever fix.

[ramonesfreak]

[QUOTE=rusnak;4054616]well the sleeve comes right back out with not too much work. I think a slightly thicker sleeve would do the trick.

EXACTLY. I hope someone will design and make a new sleeve that is just a bit thicker

[Mitch Leland]

Russ,

Once I have my new sleeve I can see what the wall thickness is. If it's less than .030" it would be hard to turn a bushing that thin with that diameter. It could be done, but I don't have the technical ability or equipment to do that.

Do you know if the existing bearing sits on a detent or shoulder in the steering column? Is the bearing just a press fit that helps it retain its position?

[rusnak]

I looks like the bearing bottoms out on something, but I have not been able to get the old one out with my pick tool. It is pressed in there fairly tightly.

There has to be some sort of spacer that could work. I'll post pics and measurements tonight. Maybe a thicker sleeve could be sourced from these measurments.

[moneymanager]

I don't suppose anyone has thought about putting the car up in the air, removing the suspension and rack and pinion and entering from underneath?

I feel certain that with perseverence and patience this 10 minute job $5 task could take at least a week.

[rusnak]

This is the problem that I'm trying to avoid, Money Dude


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=372487&highlight=steering+sleeve

It was first identified by John Walker.

What we are trying to do is tighten the fit between the inner race and the steering shaft. The problem is that the $5 fixit part is too thin. It might be possible to either find another sleeve, or somehow shim or modify the $5 fixit part.

I think everyone is trying to avoid taking the steering column out.

[moneymanager]

All: just trying to have a little fun on a slow afternoon!
But seriously, the John Walker wear problem (my mechanic, 30+ years of Porsche experience, has seen it once), if it is a problem, wouldn't a little grease fix it for the next five years? And, as noted, the 928 bushing is pretty easy to remove, so it could be re-lubricated from time to time with minimal hassle.
As to why Scott wasn't satisfied with the fix, I have no explanation. On my two Porsches, the fix with the 928 piece was perfect. Of possible interest: there was an older style (and thicker) bushing used in the early days. My 74 had it, and it kept working its way out of position. My mechanic suggested we replace it with the modern version...which though "thinner" fit very nicely. Scott might hunt around for that older thicker version, someone may have one. I have no part number, I only remember that the bushing has slightly 10-12 slightly "raised" on-axis protrusions to make it just a bit thicker than it would otherwise be.

[rusnak]

No problemo, Money Dude!

yeah, I looked briefly in the tool case for a similar part on my '70 914-6. I think the sleeve on that car was wider in diameter, but I'd have to find it to be sure. It hasn't seen the light of day in over 20 years though

I think the 928 sleeve just reduces the bumping to the point that it does not bother most people. It is not a good fit, and the grease it and leave it alone hens will eventually come home to roost.

[ramonesfreak]

ok. let me ask anyone who has installed this sleeve...

IS THERE ANY PLAY IN YOUR STEERING? UP AND DOWN. ANY WHATSOEVER?

if you have zero...then ive definately got something going on in my sterring collumn that im not aware of.

if you do, then, well perhaps im a perfectionist but my original bearing sure felt alot tighter thats for sure

[moneymanager]

Sure, maybe 1/32", unnoticeable unless you're looking for it.

[rusnak]

Scott:

I have read your posts on this thread and the John Walker thread. I thought it would be impolite of me to say that you should have left well enough alone, so I didn't respond.

I think you now have issues with the plastic part of your original bushing. If the original bushing is replaced with a new bushing, there will be zero play. The original bushing has tapered plastic guides that hold the steering shaft with a fair amount of force. I'd be surprised if you were able to get the 928 sleeve in there without damage to the plastic guides. This is the part that eventually fails, and is the reason that so many people buy the 928 sleeve. As to why your sleeve backs out and hits the circlip, I don't know. It's probably at an angle to the steering shaft, which shows in part just how much play there is between the shaft and the sleeve.

To answer your question, yes there is perceptible play in my steering wheel shaft. It is not bad unless I hit bumps, then you can hear it knocking around and feel it vibrate. I think the issue is whether you can see the sleeve rotate with the steering shaft, or does it stay stationary, and rub against the steering shaft. So far it seems most people have the sleeve rub against the steering shaft, which is why the discussion on types of grease, Optimoly, etc took place in the Walker thread.

[ramonesfreak]

Originally Posted by rusnak

Scott:

I have read your posts on this thread and the John Walker thread. I thought it would be impolite of me to say that you should have left well enough alone, so I didn't respond.

I think you now have issues with the plastic part of your original bushing. If the original bushing is replaced with a new bushing, there will be zero play. The original bushing has tapered plastic guides that hold the steering shaft with a fair amount of force. I'd be surprised if you were able to get the 928 sleeve in there without damage to the plastic guides. This is the part that eventually fails, and is the reason that so many people buy the 928 sleeve. As to why your sleeve backs out and hits the circlip, I don't know. It's probably at an angle to the steering shaft, which shows in part just how much play there is between the shaft and the sleeve.

To answer your question, yes there is perceptible play in my steering wheel shaft. It is not bad unless I hit bumps, then you can hear it knocking around and feel it vibrate. I think the issue is whether you can see the sleeve rotate with the steering shaft, or does it stay stationary, and rub against the steering shaft. So far it seems most people have the sleeve rub against the steering shaft, which is why the discussion on types of grease, Optimoly, etc took place in the Walker thread.

Not impolite. Im looking for answers, any. i appreciate the input. i only notice mine on rough roads...like if a road has a ripple, or large tar strips...i notice a small shake, or looseness. otherwise it doesnt bother me. i just always wondered if this was expected from the sleeve or if i should have expected perfection from this fix.

anyway, thanks mate

[burgermeister]

Good to know - our roads are not made of normal road-material, but from said potholes, expansion joints, cold-patches, and tar strips, so a steering wheel with 1/32" of up-down play would get really annoying in about 2 miles. Knock on wood, mine's holding up so far. Or maybe it has the repair piece - I've never looked - but there is no perceptible play.

[burgermeister]

Hmmm ... just went out to check. I do in fact have about 1/32" of vertical play that I had never noticed before (even on our crappy roads - maybe the rest of the car rattles enough to cover it up) but that I will probably always notice from now on. Thanks a lot pal!!!


Well, that answers the question what type of bearing / bushing is in there. Now I've got to disassemble the thing - as if my high quality german-engineered WunderAuto didn't have enough repair needs ...

[Mysterytrain]

I have used the 928 sleeve in the past. It works but it was not overly snug and wanted to work itself back out. After pulling the steeriing wheel and reseating the bushing a few times I decided to replace it with a new bearing. The job was a pain and required a mix of madness to remove. I used Chuck's method of drilling a hole in the base column tube to punch out the old bearing. This is tricky because the hole needs to be angled so that you have clearance for a punch to lay almost parallel to the column. I had to bend a tool from an old long screw driver. Unfortunately, only the inner race came out and then I needed to use a tiny diamond grinder bit in a dremel to cut thru the outer race...man that ***** has some serious hardness.
A couple of cautions. You need to be careful swinging the hammer because you can easily make a mess of the dash. You might want to plan the location of hole based on the tool and swing clearance before you drill. Its really tight down there and I found if difficult to be able to give the punch the good whack that the job required. When using the grinder..think like a dentist so you don't muck up the steering shaft or the column housing.
Also, didn't I read somewhere that someone made their own plastic bushing from a spray paint cap or something like that??