Porsche apocalypse – Ruf’s 911 V8

[RWebb]

I'm curious how you guys would describe the exhaust sound of a flat-crank V-8 -- similar at all to a flat-crank 12?

[RWebb]

wt. data:

441 lbs. dry (88 lbs. less than the current NA, direct inj. P AG flat-6)

re packaging, the ruf V-8 is a bit taller than the P AG flat-6

BUT the Cg is actually lower

- Feb. 2011, Excellence, p. 76

this V-8 is a more exotic motor than the flat-6 (note the Ti conn. rods) so if we compare the figures of merit for an engine:

width - likely better
ht. - worse
length - a tad worse (0.8" - it drives everything off the crank; no external belts)
cg - better
wt. - better
hp - better
cost - likely worse

4 valves/cylinder
variable intake- and exhaust-valve timing on the dual overhead cams
2 electronically controlled throttle bodies

I will let you reach your own conclusions as to sound and grooviness.

[RWebb]

there is a nice pic of the bottom (dry sump) in the article, but I did not find it on line.

here is another tho:

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by RWebb

I'm curious how you guys would describe the exhaust sound of a flat-crank V-8 -- similar at all to a flat-crank 12?

it's just like any other even fire engine, sometimes described as like a sewing machine. there is just smooth
90 deg crank, odd fire US V8
Left__collector: B-B-S-S-B-B-S-S
Right_collector: S-S-B-B-S-S-B-B

or another way to hear it L-R-R-L-R-L-L-R

180 deg crank, even fire Porsche H6, Ferrari V8, Ruf V8, 60 or 180* V12 etc
Left__collector: B-S-B-S-B-S-B-S
Right_collector: S-B-S-B-S-B-S-B


or L-R-L-R-L-R-L-R-

[Packy]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

it's just like any other even fire engine, sometimes described as like a sewing machine. there is just smooth
90 deg crank, odd fire US V8
Left__collector: B-B-S-S-B-B-S-S
Right_collector: S-S-B-B-S-S-B-B

or another way to hear it L-R-R-L-R-L-L-R

180 deg crank, even fire Porsche H6, Ferrari V8, Ruf V8, 60 or 180* V12 etc
Left__collector: B-S-B-S-B-S-B-S
Right_collector: S-B-S-B-S-B-S-B


or L-R-L-R-L-R-L-R-

lol, this is awesome. Great way to lay it out.

It's more like a bumble bee than a growl. Think Ferrari over Corvette. F1 over circle track cars.... kawasaki ninja over harley davidson.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Packy

lol, this is awesome. Great way to lay it out.

It's more like a bumble bee than a growl. Think Ferrari over Corvette. F1 over circle track cars.... kawasaki ninja over harley davidson.

yes a bumble bee would have the same sort of sound signature.

I had a BSA Gold Star in my misspent youth, it is the simplest version of even fire out there
B-S-B-S-B-S-B-S-

That's why they called them thumpers

The British vertical twins(2 thumpers married) are the next simplest even fires out there

Left__pipe: B-S-B-S-B-S-B-S
Right_pipe: S-B-S-B-S-B-S-B

and the the UJM inline 4s which are just 2 vertical twins married, but they can have far more complicated exhaust layouts, here's a 1&3 connected on the left and 2 & 4 connected on the right
Left__collector: B-S-B-S-B-S-B-S
Right_collector: S-B-S-B-S-B-S-B

[gwood]

If Ruf was really serious about lowering the cg they could turn the engine upside down like the V12 in the Me109.
A 20mm cannon between the cylinder banks would be even cooler.

[AlfonsoR]

Is it possible that this is a litmus test and that Porsche funded some of the development? I personally would also prefer a flat-8. The Ruf or Porsche V8 i could barely swallow, but I puke at chev or any other maker's engine in the back.

For me, the thing that i find so aluring about the 911 is the "out of the box thinking" of the rear engine design, the relentless & continuous improvement of the package, and of course, the success Porsche has been able to engineer through so many years, against so many competitors. That, I believe, is what has made the 911 an icon. To change the recipe by going to a "mainstream" a V8 is just too much, it will just ruin it for me. A flat 8 at least has some roots in Porsche's past and the design is not being used by anyone in a production car.

Anyway, the Ruf V8 is a B.A. engine, as well as the car, I love the gages, they have a high precision look to them. But what will be next, changing it to mid engine?

[RWebb]

I'd like to have a Boxster with that motor in it...

[Wil Ferch]

A V8 with a flat crank and firing order will probably sound a lot like a GT-40 with it's "basket-of-snakes" collectors that collected at 180 degree firing order.....kinda like a primoral scream....great stuff.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Wil Ferch

A V8 with a flat crank and firing order will probably sound a lot like a GT-40 with it's "basket-of-snakes" collectors that collected at 180 degree firing order.....kinda like a primoral scream....great stuff.

That's correct, the GT40 'bundle of snakes' connects a left bank cylinder to the right side collector and a a right bank cylinder to the left side collector. None of this is necessary when a 180* crank is used in a 90* V8 block.
GT40


It's also been used in NASCAR stockers


Most true race V8s will want to use the 180* crank because it greatly simplifies exhaust fabrication and the cranks are also lighter and so will rev more quickly. The down side is additional 2nd order harmonic vibrations

[lukeh]

I don't like the idea of a V8 in a 911. I mean what's the point? Performance I guess but with the GT2 already putting out over 600 H.P. how much more do you need? At some point all that power just becomes stupid on the street.

I'd like to see them put in in a Cayman because who cares what engine that comes with...other than the Porsche marketing department.

[RWebb]

yes, the V-8 is one of the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse

[911nut]

Originally Posted by lukeh

...... but with the GT2 already putting out over 600 H.P. how much more do you need?

Ever lived with a 911 Turbo? Pain in the a$$. I'd gladly take a 550 hp v-8 in a 911.

[lukeh]

Originally Posted by 911nut

Ever lived with a 911 Turbo? Pain in the a$$. I'd gladly take a 550 hp v-8 in a 911.

Yes, for the past 7 years. I've loved it so I guess I don't see where the "pain in the a$$" part comes in?

[Packy]

Originally Posted by RWebb

yes, the V-8 is one of the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse

Ha!

Originally Posted by AlfonsoR

Is it possible that this is a litmus test and that Porsche funded some of the development? I personally would also prefer a flat-8. The Ruf or Porsche V8 i could barely swallow, but I puke at chev or any other maker's engine in the back.

I was kinda wondering the same thing. Does porsche ever use Ruf for R&D or anything like that? I scratch your back if you scratch mine, kinda thing?

Originally Posted by lukeh

I don't like the idea of a V8 in a 911. I mean what's the point? Performance I guess but with the GT2 already putting out over 600 H.P. how much more do you need? At some point all that power just becomes stupid on the street.

I'd like to see them put in in a Cayman because who cares what engine that comes with...other than the Porsche marketing department.

Wanna bet a V8 will be cheaper than a GT2 motor?

It has been said that they can't put a factory turbo or high performance engine in the cayman or boxter because that would probably outperform their iconic 911 series. I wish they would do it too though. Maybe if they do a V8 in the 911 they'll drop something big in the cayman/boxter.

[AlfonsoR]

There's no chance that they will stick this kind of engine in the Cayman, unless... they stick it in the 911 first, then sooner rather than later they would do a V6 or less powerful V8 in the cayman as well. No reason to keep all the flat 6 tooling around for just the cayman.

The trick to sticking a bigger motor in the cayman is to stick an even bigger motor in the 911.

I understand the need to remain competitive with other manufacturers and maybe the flat engine is just not as cost effective of a design to make in bigger in displacement or number of cylinders, but, It's difficult to not to argue that the Flat 8 would be seen as a much closer spiritual successor than a V8. I hope that matters to Porsche and VW.

Yes, the V8 is cheaper than a comparable displacement flat 8 but, I think a lot of people, especially the enthusiast, would pay for the difference.

So now a question: if the V10 can be made to run fairly well, then the Flat 8 should be able to be made run just as well or better, correct?? Doesn't the V10 design have generally higher second order harmonics as well?

[EarlyPorsche]

Yes please.

[911st]

The flat plane motor is kind of the cool stuf.


I know it has exhaust tuning advantages.

Is there any cooling advantages due to the timing of adjacent cylinders.


I guess it has to be a 90 deg to be an even fire.

Or instead of going: putt, putt, putt, putt, putt, putt, putt, putt.

It would go: potato, potato, potato, potato.

[Wil Ferch]

Only V-twin Harleys go ...."potato, potato.....