New Owner, need some quality advice

[garment]

Hi Pelicans:

Really enjoy the BBS here, could use some sage advice.

I'm told by a reputable shop that my '83SC Targa is in need of an engine rebuild (cover seals, etc.). The body and interior are both good to excellent, and I plan on keeping her a long time (10 years or more). It is a blast to drive, more fun than I thought I was going to have once I joined the "club".

Would like to consider options, feel free to add or suggest on the following as I look to minimize cost and maximize enjoyment:

1. Do Nothing (for the time being, and live with a drop or two of oil a day on the garage floor and the burning oil stink when I am done with day's drive, but thankfully no smoke)
2. Rebuild ($10K or more) locally? See #1 above, I'll need to save up...
3. Ship to a "value" oriented rebuild shop - does such a thing exist?
4. Other? I'm a DIYer, but no engine experience...barter?

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the collective wisdom!

[dad911]

A few drops of oil do not mean it needs a rebuild. Did they do a compression test or a leakdown test? Is it burning oil? How many miles between adding a quart?

Read Wayne's articles:
Pelican Technical Article: Time to Rebuild? - Part I
Pelican Technical Article: Time to Rebuild? - Part II

[GaryR]

IF the engine has been checked out and verified that all head studs are good I would opt for #1, clean/pressure wash the motor to get rid of excess oil and to locate leaks. State your location, you may have a Pelican nearby that would be willing to lead you in the right direction. NEVER do #3, as you must be talking about MotorMeister....

[john walker's workshop]

mileage? history of past major repairs? the reason it's in need of work? oil use maybe?

[theclaw]

Shortly after I purchased my 911 (I was new to Porsches) I had it tech'd by a local shop who also does a lot of race and performance work. The car had a recent 60k service by the dealer who sold it to me. I was told I needed a valve adjustment. Since the 60k included valves, the shop telling me I needed valve work didn't compute.

I friend confirmed that #6 was ticking a bit and "for a 6pack" he'd show me how to do it. I called the dealer (I had now owned it for a few months) and he said "bring it in, we'll fix it". He ended up re-doing all of the valves for me.

Two lessons I learned, 1)A shop can smell a rookie Porsche owner a mile away and will recommend anything and 2) It's sometimes not as bad as they make it sound in #1.

[tharbert]

Welcome to the site, Garment. You will indeed find some great advice here. You will note that a lot of responses are simply asking for more info. The more you provide, the better the experts can guide you and there are some real experts here...like John above.

Generally speaking, these cars tend to leak a little oil. It's best described as "marking it's territory." Some usual leak sources drip on or close to the exhaust that will then give you that oil smell after driving. In addition, these cars were designed to consume a little oil during normal operation. In the older cars, even a little smoke isn't necessarily a bad thing. The info you've been ask to provide will help diagnose the source of your leaks and then you'll start to see what's best about this board: suggested course of action in three part harmony and maybe a nearby pelican volunteering to lend you a hand.

Good luck and welcome to the madness.

[McLaren-TAG]

Welcome.

As I hit my year mark of ownership myself I can tell you this site will encourage you to try things you'd never even consider doing on your own before. 'The depth of information here is mind boggling and just about anything you're liable to run across has been seen and fixed by someone. So get friendly with the search feature.

But here's the real important thing... I can't believe a half dozen responses in and no one has yet asked you for pictures!

[mreid]

The scariest part is dropping the engine for the first time. The hardest part is removing studs. The most confusing part is puting it back together properly. The most painful part is paying someone else to do it for you. There are good solutions for each. Which worries you the most?

[garment]

Thanks everyone, for jumping in so quickly, sorry to not provide enough info...

I'm told the o-rings "through bolts" which I take to mean studs (but may be wrong) are shot, causing some leaks. I am also told that the head gaskets are leaking. The PO did a compression test, but so long ago that I doubt it is relevant any longer. Not sure about leakdown. There's about 150K on the odometer, which I believe at least going back to 1993 or so (I have service records from the PO).

I recently changed the crimped oil lines for new. The shop did an oil change, and after checking it myself after less than 500 miles, I didn't even see oil on the stick. After adding 3(!) quarts, the oil level is between the dots on the stick (and yes, allowing the engine and oil to heat to temperature).

I'm in the DC metro area, and I am more than willing to treat for beer for a compassionate diagnosis/ear!



Finally - here a pic! Thanks! Any further advice is well appreciated!

https://www.icloud.com/photostream/#A5JtdOXmJ0kdVS

[Quicksilver]

Got a friend with an 80s SC. It is north of 300,000 miles. He and his wife both Auto-X it. It has had a valve job but other then that it is original.

These motors just run and run.

[garment]

Originally Posted by mreid

The scariest part is dropping the engine for the first time. The hardest part is removing studs. The most confusing part is puting it back together properly. The most painful part is paying someone else to do it for you. There are good solutions for each. Which worries you the most?

cost, no doubt, is first, then confusion!

[GaryR]

Originally Posted by garment

The shop did an oil change, and after checking it myself after less than 500 miles, I didn't even see oil on the stick. After adding 3(!) quarts, the oil level is between the dots on the stick (and yes, allowing the engine and oil to heat to temperature).

It's good it was warmed up but you did check the oil with the car running, at an idle, yes?

[garment]

Originally Posted by GaryR

It's good it was warmed up but you did check the oil with the car running, at an idle, yes?

indeed!

[OsoMoore]

Assuming the shop knew how to fill the oil properly (as you do, good work!) then 3 quarts in 500 miles seems like a lot. My 1979 SC burns/drips a quart every 1K, which isn't enough that I worry. I just put a piece of cardboard under it in the garage and keep an eye on the gauge - but check it with the dip stick and not just the gauge.

Does it smoke under deceleration? At startup? Also, your pictures aren't showing up for me unless I follow the link. Try using the Advanced post button and upload from there, then it will be hosted here at Pelican. Looks like a Pleco!

[garment]

No smoke at deceleration, and just a single "belch" of smoke at start up.

here she is!

[steve911T]

If you were burning 3 quarts of oil in 500 miles, you would look like you were spraying for mosquitos. Do you have oil spray under the tail and on the bumper? Put several quarts of oil in, use non synthetic 20-50, afraid to quote any brand, fill it up to about 1/4-1/2 on the dipstick and start checking it after each use. Also, pull a plug. they would almost certain to be black if you were actually burning that much. There is the Dorkiphus website for the DC/VA/MD area and lots of great help available from those people. Also, the o rings may be the orings on the oil return tubes that may be shot. You would lose a lot of oil from them, especially underneath the vehicle. Not too bad of a fix with engine in the car. Good luck.

[SiberianDVM]

Beautiful car. Welcome to Targa World!

[garment]

Originally Posted by steve911T

If you were burning 3 quarts of oil in 500 miles, you would look like you were spraying for mosquitos. Do you have oil spray under the tail and on the bumper? Put several quarts of oil in, use non synthetic 20-50, afraid to quote any brand, fill it up to about 1/4-1/2 on the dipstick and start checking it after each use. Also, pull a plug. they would almost certain to be black if you were actually burning that much. There is the Dorkiphus website for the DC/VA/MD area and lots of great help available from those people. Also, the o rings may be the orings on the oil return tubes that may be shot. You would lose a lot of oil from them, especially underneath the vehicle. Not too bad of a fix with engine in the car. Good luck.

appreciate the suggestions!

[Reiver]

Slow down a bit on the rebuild and do some checking first. Run the car to fully warm (where you normally register) and leave it running, wait a minute then check oil level and fill exactly to 1/2...note mileage. Drive normally as racing or high rpm work will increase oil use. Check it at regular intervals. Do this process a few times to get a real feel for how much you are using.
I've an 83 with 223800 miles unopened and burn abt 1 qt 550-600 miles. The indy shop owner just drove it for me and said it pulls better than most SC's he's driven.
All 911's burn some oil so don't get overly excited as yet.

[dshepp806]

Certainly, establish exactly what's she's leaking/burning, first. Then get full comp/leakdowns done. ID any leak sources, as they contribute to amount needed to be added.

Go from there.

BEST!

Doyle