911 E engine compartment

This is the engine compartment of a 1969 911E I'll be taking a look at. Mileage is unknown & the current owner knows very little about the car . Engine # is 620 8074 which I think is a 1970 2.2 E engine? I'm not sure the photo is that great, but maybe those more familiar with this model than me can give some feedback/ expert appraisals.
Is there anything I should take heed of here? I think I can see carrera tensioners have been fitted, it all looks fairly clean... but what else?

cheers,
Andrew

[chuckw951]

I would look at the car closely for rust.
I would look at the car closely for rust.

Call me pessimistic but not knowing much about a car is good cover for problems that the owner doesn't disclose. I would have the car checked out too. If the MFI system needs rebuilding work that could be a costly repair. Listen for backfires. Actually, if it back fires you will know it!

There's a picture of a '69 911E engine compartment on my website, but it is of poor quality. http://ourworld.cs.com/Chuck21401/

I have a 2meg mpg file of the motor running that I can email you that could provide additional visual clues as to what should be in the motor compartment area, but from the picture nothing looks unusual other than the snorkle thing is missing. Actually the bar that controls the throttle bodies looks off to me, but perhaps it's the angle of the shot. Also, what is the pipe that appears to be welded onto the top of the air cleaner? Some sort of exhaust recirculation? My 2.0 did have that.

I took the video for the person that bought the 2.0 motor (actually I traded the 2.0 motor for a 3.0 SC motor).
Email me at chuck21401@cs.com if that file is of interest to you.

Chuck

Thanks for the feedback Chuck. I can't thik what the pipe welded to the air cleaner would do- definitely looks a little odd.

What typical symptoms would a worn MFI system exhibit other than backfires? High fuel consumption, misfiring, hesitation?

Its claimed to be a rust-free car, but I've heard that one a few times before, so we'll see

[HarryD]

In my hunt for my '73, I was amazed at how many "rust free" cars have rust in them. Check the suspension pan, around the windows, door sills, door jambs, rocker panels, wheel wells, etc. Use a small screwdriver to gently prod suspect areas. Remember a small bubble on the outside is big rust on the inside.

In my case, I accepted a car with a rust free body and needing engine work. The way I figured it, engine repairs last 50-100k. Rust repairs last 2 weeks.

Good luck.

[TRE Cup]

Is that a Bosch blue coil in there? If the car has the correct CD ignition box (aluminum finned unit that hums at high frequency on the left side of the engine compartment when the key is turned on and/or car is running) Then that coil is not compatible with CDI ignitions and needs to be swapped out with the correct transformer (warning do not touch while ignition is turned on!!). Another clue is if the distributor has a condenser attached- Non CDI systems use a condenser.
That pipe welded to the cover is indeed odd. Perhaps a previous owner had it hooked up to a pre heat pipe for extra cold weather? Didn't know it got that cold in NZ.
Otherwise the pic shows updated Carrera tensioners and is tidy.

[chuckw951]

Originally posted by an6drew
Thanks for the feedback Chuck. I can't thik what the pipe welded to the air cleaner would do- definitely looks a little odd.

What typical symptoms would a worn MFI system exhibit other than backfires? High fuel consumption, misfiring, hesitation?

Its claimed to be a rust-free car, but I've heard that one a few times before, so we'll see

On the 911e check out the front struts. Stock 911e cars had those funky pneumatic struts which are expensive to update to regular front 911 suspensions, but most have already been converted by now. Also see if the car has sway bars. 911e usually didn't. Finally the 911e usually had 14" wheels with high profile tires. That's what mine has, though I'll probably upgrade to 16 X 6 or 15 X 6.

The 911e motor should really rev. The 2.0 I had made one heck of a sound at 7K rpms

Chuck

[redducati750]

On the 911e check out the front struts. Stock 911e cars had those funky pneumatic struts which are expensive to update to regular front 911 suspensions, but most have already been converted by now.

NOT MINE


Geoff

[Oldporsche]

I went out and looked at my ' 70 911E. The throttle linkage cross bar is in the correct position. On this car the air horn has been cut off. This was done sometimes to clear the air conditioner pump. Is that what was done here?

If you have a bellows on top of the front strut, you have the hydropneumatic front struts. You should have "S" alloy front calipers. They are stock on the front.

Some of these cars were made by Reutters. Check out the manufacture of the body.

Good luck,
David Duffield

[jabb]

Looks like the cooling tin is missing from the front of the motor

[jeff m]

the # says '70 E motor but in the pic the "metal work" looks yellow which would be from a T, that's no big deal it's the motor that's important.
Ps Backfiring does not mean that the MFI is malfunctioning.
That is usually a function of Micro switch and speed switch, well non function actually. No big deal, if the rest of the car is good.
Just get the seller to knock off a grand for the backfire.
Jeff
911T

Well I've just got back from checking the car out. Its actually a 1970 E with the original engine.

-engine very clean underneath
-smoked for a couple minutes at the exhaust (white smoke)
-took a few minutes on hand throttle to settle down (actually did backfire once)
-clutch is new
-the 1st, 2nd (especially) & 3rd gear sychros (a 915 5 speed) are pretty shot.
-suspension not so great (David- didn't see your post before I looked at the car, so couldn't identify the front suspension)
-steering relatively tight
-power was good, but hesitation in second gear below ~3000rpm (MFI related?)
-fairly cheap paint job (obviously many years back)
-body straight.......but 1/4" rust-through in passenger door sill, rust developing under paint around window seals, & rust on underside of front pan (surface rust but the metal is getting pretty thin at the front section between batteries)

Anyway, even though I think I can get it for 5000 I think I'll probably pass on this one. Things like the transmission & suspension are relatively easy to fix, but I'm not prepared for a bare-metal restoration & I don't think I could sleep soundly knowing that the rust is slowly spreading.

[jluetjen]

An6drew;
I'd agree about being cautious with that car, especially because of the rust. Do a search on this BBS for "Rust". About a year ago a poster from Scotland posted pictures of his car after it had been stripped. It's not for the weak of stomach, but it will educate you real quick about the places to look for rust. As far as the chassis being "straight", the only way that you can tell this is by putting it on an alignment machine or by driving it through a puddle. Check the tire tracks and make sure that they track straight and are even. For example a car is not straight if the LF tire tracks inside the LR while the RF tracks outside the RF. (Ask me how I know!)

As far as the MFI backfiring, that is an easy fix, and also potentially a good negotiating point. Fixing it could be a simple is adjusting the overrun switch. If you are interested in buying a car with MFI, read the tech notes here on the Pelican site about MFI. They are THE best source for MFI information short of moving in with the one of the few folks who still rebuilds the system. Working on an MFI is not as bad as people make it out to be. Do a search on this BBS for MFI. The hesitation below 3000 RPM could be MFI or ignition related. It could also just be fouled plugs. The CDI should prevent this, but an MSD ignition I've found to be better still. Above 3000 RPM an MSD works no better or worse then a CDI. I don't think that a backfire while on the hand exhaust is a really big deal in an MFI car.

You mentioned the 915 gear box. That's strange since they were not standard until 1972. What was the sift pattern? R-1/2-3/4-5 or 1-2/3-4/5-R ? The 901/911 transaxles had the former while the 915 had the later. Unless the engine's torque was greater then a 901/911 could handle, I wouldn't necessarily consider a 915 an improvement over a 901/911. But that is just my opinion.

Finally Ruetter didn't build any '69 body shells, not exactly. By this time Porsche had bought out the Ruetter body works and so any "Porsche" bodied cars were most likely built by people who formally worked for Ruetter. It was a "friendly" takeover, so I didn't get the sense that many of the Ruetter people left. I'm sure that Herr Kunz on this BBS may even know some of them! Now Karmann did build some of the 911 bodies. I have one. The quality is comparable to Porsche's inhouse bodies and I've never heard of anyone describing problems associated with them. BTW; Karmann has also built bodies for VW and BMW and the reputation has always been good.