ITBs Who make them?

[1ricardo]

Dears Friends

I have this 3.6L that came out of a 1991 964 and I would like to know where i can find/buy the ITBs for this engine
Also I heard that there is a EFI and MFI in varies dia ( 40, 46, 50)
What are the differences? Also do i use it with the original motronic that came with the car?
Any help is appreciate

Thansk

[faverymi]

PMO
Rothsport
Check Clewlett and Patrick for complete packages

You need different engine management. Motronic not going to cut it.

[Fly911]

The best ITB's on the market for Porsche is Jenvey from the UK. Those are used by Rothsport, Singer and other serious tuners. You can't use the original Motronic, but will need and aftermarket ECU, MoTec is probably the best one, but there are several others that will do the job. ITB's do not increase HP unless you go with much more aggressive cams. And then you would need to change the pistons for valve clearance. So to justify your ITB's, you would need to do a top end rebuild with new P/C's and cams. You will easily spend $20k to get the job done correctly...

[Mahler9th]

There are several different types of systems. The one I think that has been most popular for a long time is from TWM, now owned by Borla. I think there is a great TWM set up for sale in these classifieds.

What makes the most sense depends of course on goals and budgets. The stuff being done by Rothsport is great-- I think they favor DTA and Motec for EFI. But of course Haltech and a host of other aftermarket EFI systems can work just as well depending on specs. I think you could even implement an ITB set up and use a custom chip in a DME.... everything depends on what you are trying to achieve.

If I were a semi-DIY guy or a non DIY guy, I'd for sure formulate a set of goals and talk to an engine builder about next steps. For example, someone like Jerry Woods or Jeff Gamroh. And of course there are others.

I'd shy away from comments about what works best for what, and at what cost based upon incomplete information in threads like this... I think it is too easy to draw inappropriate conclusions from partial answers to partial inquiries.

[911ducktail]

soon.....

bosch 40mm DBW ITB running off a Haltech Elite, LS1 injectors, Chevy Sonic MAP sensor....

[tirwin]

Hey, 911 Ducktail -

Looks like you're doing some mock ups. Just wanted to mention to remember those of us with A/C brackets when you are thinking about the fuel rail on the right side.

I saw a Singer in person last weekend and it had A/C. Of course the 3.6 may have a different compressor mounting bracket.

[moparrob]

Wow, that drive by wire setup looks awesome. Quite the talent you have there..

[911ducktail]

tirwin - thanks for the reminder. yes these are mockups. This is about a year and a half of progress - not just designing the intakes/horns/clamps but figuring out the world of crap pro-sumer 3d Printers. going through all of that crap as well as messing with the different materials

I believe Singer uses those beautiful Jenvey throttle bodies, they're much much smaller than mine since they dont have the MAP or the injectors in them. The goal is to keep the overall height equal to a weber carb set up with the air cleaners on them. The horns are a little bigger than I want right now but they're the result of using Inventors fluid flow calculator...

the white is ABS and is by far the best quality print
the orange is PLA and is ok
the yellow is PLA and is ok
the off-white with the stringy prints is PLA and came off a makerbot which is garbage

heres a pic with an injector and sensor mounted



and some other pics of the various iterations of the intake

[l_turn9]

I'll second the suggeston for the ones PMO makes. As with all of Richard's stuff, they are a work of art.

[1ricardo]

Hi
I'll take a look at PMOs I think Patrick Motorsport sell them, but it's expensive then buy directly from PMO
I don't know why?! My be they provide a complete kit and at PMO I have to add something
Another thing that I don't understand is why I cannot use the original DME motronic form the car
Since the ITB from PMO for instance need the original fuel injector from the car
Why the DME/motronic will fail to manage the engine?
My main goal with this ITB's are the look of it I don't intent to gain horse power or change cam or anything like that

[Ferrino]

The comment that you cannot use Motronic with ITBs is not strictly true. If you were to use a plenum with a MAF sensor, you could use Sal's Motronic code.

Also, an increase in power is not necessarily the objective with ITBs. For me, it's all about throttle response, as well as recovering some of the vintage look and sound that was lost with the big single-throttle assemblies.

[1ricardo]

Hello,
And where can I Findnd Sal to reprogram the ECU?
Also is there any disadvantage in use the plenum and the maf sensor ?

Thanks

[l_turn9]

PMO does not sell his ITB's direct to the public. He prefers to sell them to established installers who know how to do it properly. Also, PMO does not sell complete ITB kits. They sell the Throttle Bodies with injectors as well as Manifolds. There's lots more than that goes into it.
As far as using Motronic or OEM controllers; you need to match the ITBs and the controller - there are dozens of adjustment points that can be adjusted. When Porsche goes about setting up controllers for the various Intake systems they offer they expect to spend millions of $$'s and months of engineering time getting them right. Clewett is excellent as are some others. You want someone who has does exactly what you want done and not someone looking to learn on your car. It's not an easy process to do a professional looking installation and fine tune a EFI system - I installed a single TB EFI system on my 911 and I can still find places needing minor tweaking. Mine started instantly immediately after I installed the system, but some places when it's warming up can still be massaged now - 3 or 4 years after I installed the system. I suggest you go to Clewett or any other installer PMO is happy with and spend an hour or 2 asking questions and talking about the things involved. Megasquirt makes a controller that can be tuned to many different EFI systems - they have a massive suppot network and a history on a huge number of engines. but I'm not sure it will support 6 ITBs, but it may do it very well. Good Luck with your project. BTW, stay away from MM. ;-)

[al lkosmal]

there are many options available...........

www.x-faktory.com



regards,
al

[prschmn]

I've installed a number of systems using the PMOs and either Motec or Haltech. Fly is right though,
in that you're looking at a sizeable investment. Not for the faint of heart or wallet

[Tippy]

Originally Posted by prschmn

I've installed a number of systems using the PMOs and either Motec or Haltech. Fly is right though,
in that you're looking at a sizeable investment. Not for the faint of heart or wallet

I have $500-600 in mine, and I'm using cheap Suzuki ITB's. I haven't even gotten the adapters machined yet.

Yes, even going the "cheap" route is far from cheap. I'd think the cheapest you can do this is about $1000.

[Ferrino]

Originally Posted by 1ricardo

Hello,
And where can I Findnd Sal to reprogram the ECU?
Also is there any disadvantage in use the plenum and the maf sensor ?

You can find a thread on one of his MAF setups here. I believe Sal is a proponent of using MAF as the load-sensing method in EFI systems (as opposed to MAP or TPS), so in that sense, he would probably argue that a plenum is better choice because it allows use of a MAF. Personally, I prefer the look and sound of the exposed velocity stacks.

[David Borden]

Originally Posted by 911ducktail

soon.....

bosch 40mm DBW ITB running off a Haltech Elite, LS1 injectors, Chevy Sonic MAP sensor....

Very cool project!

Does each TB have its own DBW servo? If so, what will you drive them with?

David

[1jzracing]

We make an ITB kit, currently refining and updating a few things. We have a lot of options for different length and size runners and trumpets etc.

[roblav]

Suzuki GSX-R750 ITBs from around 2000 work great. Cheap and effective.