Does Your Passenger Window Go All The Way Down? '83 TARGA

[Gordo2]

The passenger window on my '83 Targa doesn't go down all the way.

I've adjusted the height adjuster, but it only adjusts the height with the window up.

Is this normal or is there something out of whack with my window adjustment? The driver's side is flush with the door when it's down all the way.



Thanks, Gordo

[mhackney]

The window on my 83 Cabriolet goes all the way down. I suspect an adjustment issue OR it is possible the glass has pulled out of the U channel or the U channel itself has bent or detached. This is what happened to me (rusted through) and eventually caused a complete failure. After putting in a good replacement, the window moves perfectly stop to stop.

You should pull the door panel to make sure the glass is properly seated and go from there. Something is preventing it from lowering completely. Best find it now before it binds and burns a motor - or worse!

[Discseven]

Yeah... that ain't right Gordo. Like Mhack, my U channel rusted out and when it does...no telling what position the glass is actually in down below. Symptoms start as you are experiencing. This does not guarantee your channel is rusted.

You can check for U channel decay by raising glass slightly (compared to where it is in pic) and pull up on glass gently and push down. Got to be careful with this so as not to make bad situation worse... but it is a way to check channel without removing speaker (if you have door speaker.) If you know how glass feels when it moves normally---there's a very slight play up and down... you'll notice glass does not move as it should when U channel is rusting out. There's a "stretchy" feel to it.

[Gordo2]

Thanks guys,

Door panel is off, everything's been inspected:
- I shifted the glass around some in the mount, seemed normal
- No rust anywhere

Meanwhile upon further inspection and compared to the driver's window, the passenger glass simply isn't and won't seat in the window mount channel fully.

Considering pulling the glass for a better look at why it won't seat.

Gordo

[Gordo2]

You guys are spot on:

Poor photo, but my window mount / u-channel has some extra drainage holes:



Bummer - I'm into the doors to install speakers. Thought I was going to make it through this project without getting "while you're at it" side tracked...

Oh well - mystery solved.

Thanks again,

Gordo

[MeinTarga]

My 81 Targa has exactly the same issue. My passenger window looks just like yours and has for several years. I assumed that's just the way it was. I guess now I'll have to take it apart and look.

Where you able clean up the old one good enough or do you have to source a replacement?

[Gordo2]

Originally Posted by MeinTarga

My 81 Targa has exactly the same issue. My passenger window looks just like yours and has for several years. I assumed that's just the way it was. I guess now I'll have to take it apart and look.

Where you able clean up the old one good enough or do you have to source a replacement?

Rather embarrassing solution - but temporary.

I cleaned up the rail (scraped and wire brushed the rust areas) and epoxied (JB Weld like stuff) the rust holes. Reinstalled to find that even with the window seated correctly in the rail - the passenger side still sticks up a bit out of the door (not as much as before I addressed the rust); unlike the driver's side, which recesses completely.

I plan to order a new rail (ouch ~ $280 ish on Pelican Porsche 911 (1974-1989) - Seals & Weatherstripping - Page 2) when I have more time to address it (i.e. winter & not driving the car daily)

I figured the appropriate fix can wait - the window's been this way for as long as I can remember, another couple of months with my temp fix isn't going to make a difference.

Gordo

[Discseven]

Originally Posted by Gordo2

...Reinstalled to find that even with the window seated correctly in the rail - the passenger side still sticks up a bit out of the door (not as much as before I addressed the rust); unlike the driver's side, which recesses completely.

Gordo... based on your note... will ask if you blocked/supported under the rail inside the door while forcing the glass and u seal into the rail? Without supporting it, there's no way to get the glass deep into the rail for a secure fit. (It's also the final push down that enables the alignment of the glass to the roof.) With a rusted/weakened rail, the need to support it evenly across the bottom is important---without doing so it may deform when pressure is applied. Pardon me if you know all this!

[Gordo2]

Rust in window channels is common and problematic...









Gordo

[universeman]

I replaced my rail on driver side with a used one a while back during an overall refresh. Used one looked clean, not much rust if any. Damn if glass now sits just like yours (everything else was just put back in.) I have guessed the rail was the culprit but you’ve convinced me to remove my glass again and make sure. This situation can really screw up the expensive little rubber seal at the top of your vent window frame, ask how I know...

[Gordo2]

In my quest to get my Targa windows properly aligned and adjusted - I went ahead and bought new lower stops for the window regulators.

The old lower regulator stops were completely worn out and the white plastic inserts were missing. Here's the old lower stop, next to a new one:




After I installed the new stop, I found that when I lowered the window, it now stuck out of the door way too much (about 2" of window exposed / protruding out of the door).

The lower stop isn't adjustable as far as I can tell - which made me wonder what's the point of the lower stop???.

If I remove the lower stop - the window goes all the way down and doesn't protrude above the top of the door (at all), and it doesn't seem to have any effect on the regulator - it still stops lowering the window at some point even though the lower stop is not installed.

While I had the driver's door apart, I also noticed that the driver's door window was held in the regulator rail / channel with silicone caulk - and doesn't appear to have the normal / stock rubber grommet that the window normally sits in.



I'm considering attempting to remove the window and reinstall with a rubber grommet.

Things to do on a rainy January day...

Gordo

[Gordo2]

Answering my own question on why the door window regulator has a lower stop...

My theory is that the lower stop is installed solely to lock the window in the down position so that the regulator assembly doesn't rattle around. It's not designed to allow adjustment / how far down the window can be lowered.

Gordo

[Jack Stands]

I always assume there was some need that had to be addressed (either mechanical or legislated) or the factory would not have spent the time and money to build and install the part. The anti-rattling idea makes sense.

[Gordo2]

OK - I don't have a clue what's "normal"

I've looked at a boatload of SC Targa photo's (Google Images) and found most windows appear to go all the way down, with no window exposed - but some appear to be completely lowered with some amount of window still protruding from the door - just like mine.

I installed the new regulator lower stops in the driver's and passenger's sides, and now both windows lower to the same level - leaving the same amount of window exposed / above the doorframe.



I've looked at everything that is adjustable on the reg's etc. - but there is no way that the windows can be lowered further in the down position.

I'm now wondering if the type of regulator that my car has (with adjustable upper stop / fixed lower stop) - simply leaves some amount of window exposed / above the door, when it's fully lowered.

I wouldn't really care - but it seems most photos show the windows go completely down, which makes me think something is out of whack with mine, and its uncomfortable to rest your arm on the door, if the window is slightly up...

Gordo

[proporsche]

Hi..how far does the window go down when you remove the stop?

Ivan

[Gordo2]

Originally Posted by proporsche

Hi..how far does the window go down when you remove the stop?

Ivan

I was headed in that direction...

Here's a photo with the lower window stops removed:

With the window regulator lower stops removed - the windows in their lowered position are now flush with the top of the doors:



This brings up a new theory... I believe that 911's equipped with the Targa / Cab type window regulators that used the lower window stop - originally had windows that didn't go all the way down / left a portion of the window protruding as per my previous photo.

I think vehicles with this type of regulator, that have windows that are flush with the doors, are missing the white plastic insert / bumper that should reside in the metal lower stop bracket. Mine broke and crumbled at some point - allowing the driver's window to lower further than originally designed.

To prove my theory - here's a photo showing the old window stop that was installed in my door (which was missing the white plastic bumper), next to a new stop & bumper:

The old stop is worn out from metal on metal contact between the stop and regulator arm. The new stop and white bumper insert, stops the lowering movement of the window at a considerably higher point (as per my photo with the stops installed)



I'm now considering not installing the stops and driving my car for a while, to see how much rattle / noise I get.

Gordo

[universeman]

The window should go all the way down, leaving just the "nose" of the window (near the vent window) exposed, 1/8" or less.

Otherwise, how are you supposed to comfortably hang your arm out of the window while motoring around?

My body shop fixed my driver glass that was sticking up by seating it better into the rail. But it was not sticking up as far as yours.

Something's not right with your setup. Mine has the lower stops and still lowers all the way. Keep trying.

[proporsche]

Gordo..somehow i remember that you can relocate the stops.It was a long time ago i did this for a client...check into it..
Ivan

[Gordo2]

Originally Posted by universeman

Otherwise, how are you supposed to comfortably hang your arm out of the window while motoring around?

You joke - but that's exactly what got me digging into this.

I'm mystified...

This weekend I will completely remove one of the regulator assemblies to give it a full check out.

Thanks,

[Gordo2]

Folks,

I'm convinced there is no way that the window goes all the way down with the lower stops installed.

I re-confimed that the lower stops are not adjustable...

I removed the stop and lowered the window all the way down. As "universeman" commented ~ 1/4" of remained exposed, near the vent window:

Photo of window, lowered as far as it would go, with the stop removed / not installed:


When the window is lowered this far without the stop installed - the rail channel bottoms out in the door, which prevents the window from lowering any further:


I confirmed that my windows are properly seated in the window rail channels:


Even if the windows weren't fully seated - at most this would result in ~ 1/2" difference.

Bottom line - I'm not going to install the lower stops, and I still believe most cars that have windows that don't protrude above the door:
- Have a different regulator assembly, or
- Have worn out window stops (missing plastic bumpers), or
- Had the window stops removed and never reinstalled.

That's my story, and I'm sticking with it unless someone can show me photo proof otherwise...

Gordo