Distributor question...

[warment]

Which direction(clockwise or counterclockwise) do I need to turn the distributor in order to retard timing?

Bill

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William Armentrout
1973 911T
2.7 carerra rs specs
www.geocities.com/william_armentrout

[Matt Smith]

The same way the rotor spins. I think it's clockwise. Actually I'm pretty sure, but I'm having difficulty visualising it sitting at my desk.
How's the beast running now Bill?

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'72 911 TE

[lagoon]

Counterclockwise

[stlrj]

Whichever way it makes the idle slow down. Put a timing light on it to confirm.

Joe

[john walker's workshop]

like matt says, if the rotor turns clockwise,like early 911s do, then retarding is clockwise too.

[warment]

The fan turns clockwise(if my memory serves me), so I would assume that turning the distributor clockwise would retard ignition. I have been experiencing engine "run on" after I turn off the key, so I decided that I would retard timing slightly and see what happens. I turned the distributor clockwise(the same direction that the fan turns) and my engine seemed to act worse than it did before. I am going to fill the car up with premium fuel today(93 octane) and see what happens(I used 89 octane last time). The problem surfaced recently, and I thought maybe it was due to the colder weather?

Matt, my car is torn up pretty badly. I have all windows out(except for the back window) because I decided to take the car down to bare metal prior to repaint. Aircraft Remover works really well! I did find a few rust spots that required attention, so I am in the process of fixing them. I ordered a slew of sunroof parts, and have taken the the entire car down to bare metal, and then I primered everything with the exception of a rust repair spot in the right rear fender(I ran out of shielding gas for my welder). I hope to get the car painted very, very soon...

I'll post a link to some updated pictures as soon as I get them posted!

Bill

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William Armentrout
1973 911T
2.7 carerra rs specs
www.geocities.com/william_armentrout

[Early_S_Man]

Bill,

Winter-mix gas is always of lower quality octane than summer-mix, so you will probably notice the difference after you burn off the residual.

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa
1992 Dodge Dakota 5.2 4X4 parts hauler

[warment]

Warren,

Thanks for the tip. It was my concern that the lower octane gas was causing the problem.

By the way, when are you going to change your name from "Early_S_Man" to "Early_S_God?" Thanks again!

Bill

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William Armentrout
1973 911T
2.7 carerra rs specs
www.geocities.com/william_armentrout

[98GTW]

While we're on the topic, if I'm looking at it properly, the vacuum device on the distributor (at least on my 77 2.7) is most correctly called a vacuum retard, rather than a vacuum advance, no?
High vacuum, as at idle, with throttle closed, pulls on the diaphragm, retarding timing. Opening throttle reduces vacuum, allowing springs on advance/retard plate to pull points CCW, advancing timing.
I've been looking again at my timing (or a vacuum-related timing problem) as part of the cold-start issue I'm having. A PO had disabled the vacuum advance/retard for some reason. I've put it back as I think it should be. I set the timing to TDC (warm engine, vacuum hose on), but as an experiment I retarded the timing a few degrees by eye last night and starting cold was significantly easier.
I'm probably going to need to get a vacuum tester to track this down. Are there published specs for vacuum components? Any idea where I can locate a complete vacuum map?

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Dave
'77 911S
inari77s@911fanatic.com
Rochester, NY

[CamB]

Check the specs for your car - the timing may need to be set with the vacuum disconnected.

Then reconnect the vacuum line and let it do its bit (I guess you could even check that too??).

Someone will correct me if I am making this up. Even better, someone might have the correct specs to help you out.

Cam

[This message has been edited by CamB (edited 10-16-2001).]

[Early_S_Man]

Dave,

You assertions about the vacuum module are correct. The vacuum module acts like a switch, giving 10° of retard at idle. The precise specs are: 2° retard at 3.3 - 4.3 inches of vacuum, and 8° retard at 3.9 - 4.9 inches of vacuum ... those are the only two test points given in the service manual.

All of the 2.7 CIS engines used the same distributor as the 2.4 'T' engine and all of the distributor curves are posted from spec book and service maual in the following thread:

http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/Forum3/HTML/009677.html

According to both Haynes and BA ... the '77 49-state cars had timing set at TDC.
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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa
1992 Dodge Dakota 5.2 4X4 parts hauler

[This message has been edited by Early_S_Man (edited 10-16-2001).]

[CamB]

So Warren - reading the pages on the other thread, you set the timing at idle with the vacuum hose connected and the advance disconnected (although it shouldn't do anything past idle?).

In that case, ignore my advice in the previous reply... I think there is a smiley for this.

There we go

<-Cam->



Hey Warren - how early is it in Texas anyhow?

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Cameron Baudinet
1975 911S (in bits)
1969 911T

[Early_S_Man]

Cam ... it's 7:25 AM in Texas and Tuesday morning ... and you're already off work on Wednesday evening, right?

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Warren Hall
1973 911S Targa
1992 Dodge Dakota 5.2 4X4 parts hauler

[RoninLB]

My 77 2.7 Calif. delivered 911 runs cooler and stronger with vac. line disconnected and 5deg initial advance.

[CamB]

Ah-ha, so you were checking the BBS at 6:55am!

We are 4 hours behind Pacific time, so 6 hours behind you and it is about 2am very early Wednesday morning.

I am at work. Not a good scenario. Investment banking sucks sometimes. I wanna weekend off to play with my car (ok, so I installed the MSD the weekend before last, but that was the only weekend in about a month - and I worked Sunday night).

Focusing on the money to buy more Porsche bits from the bonus if the deal I am working on is successful ...

Cam

[john walker's workshop]

many 77s came stock with the vacuum retard hose disabled by a red rubber inline plug. the plug was on the vacuum unit and the hose was on the plug. probably to keep people from asking "why is nothing connected here?" +5° with the hose off works well. by the way, the return spring for the breaker plate is in the vacuum unit.

[98GTW]

Hey,
I've even got the plug. But when I saw a screw driven into a stub of vacuum line off a tee that goes to the thermo-switch I was certain the PO had done something b-a-a-a-d.
Manually dialing in more retard at cold start seems to make my car start more easily. It's possible the vacuum isn't high enough when starting (bad hose? bad Aux. Air Valve? bad Aux Air Regulator? charcoal canister?) to give sufficient retard for easy starting.
With the clutch out of commission, I haven't warmed the car up or taken it out to see if the static retard for easy starting has affected acceleration or drivability.
Tomorrow, if I can get under the car tonight to get the clutch cable suport back in.

John "+5 degrees" is 5 degrees ATDC?
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Dave
'77 911S
inari77s@911fanatic.com
Rochester, NY

[This message has been edited by 98GTW (edited 10-16-2001).]

[911pcars]

"The fan turns clockwise(if my memory serves me), so I would assume that turning the distributor clockwise would retard ignition.

When adjusting the ignition timing, disregard what the fan is doing (other than keeping our tie out of it) as the only correlation is that the dist. shaft. will rotate ccw or cw. Depending on your year, the distributor rotation is different. Thus, advance the timing by rotating the dist. opposite rotor direction (engine speed increases). To be most accurate, use a timing light and the timing marks.

Sherwood Lee
http://members.rennlist.org/911pcars

[warment]

Looks like premium fuel fixed my problem. Warren was right again...

Bill

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William Armentrout
1973 911T
2.7 carerra rs specs
www.geocities.com/william_armentrout

[john walker's workshop]

dave, that would be "before" TDC (BTDC).