Ethanol pluses and minuses

[cassisrot]

A new gas station just opened in town selling 87 octane no-ethanol gas. I have an 87 3.2 carrera with a po intstalled Weltmeister chip. Is this gas a good deal or are there problems with its use. I'm at 6500 feet so I'm not concerned with predetination but I wonder about performance issues and concerns with fuel lines, etc.

[steve911T]

In Maryland, non ethanol 91 is available and runs fine in my Carrera. 87 may be a bit too low, good luck! There are several other threads on this subject. Steve

[john walker's workshop]

Are there any plusses?

[manbridge 74]

The plus is for turboooooos!

Doubtful the E10 there is much over 5%. I’m just down the road and that’s what I’ve tested.

The weak link and of much more concern is your single crimp original 30 year old fuel lines. Get some new double crimp ones made up in the near future.

[cassisrot]

Jeff, I got new fuel lines 2 years ago but I assume single crimp.

Steve' I lived on Indian creek near East New Market back in the 40's. Is that anywhere near you?

[steve911T]

Richard, yes, 20 minutes away on the Choptank river. Small station in East New Market used to be my main source on non ethanol. Now Royal Farms, large chain has it in several locations. Steve

[cassisrot]

Small world ain't it!

[cassisrot]

John Walker...Are there any pluses? If non-ethanol encourages gas leaks I guess I'll just avoid it if there isn't any benefit from using it.

[timmy2]

I believe John is looking for any pluses for ethanol.
It is the ethanol that can lead to fuel leaks in the lines.

[Jack Stands]

The fuel lines in these cars were never designed to be used with ethanol laced fuels. The lines deteriorate over time, and carbs have a lot of problems if the fuel is allowed to sit for any length of time. The same issues happen with powerboats and small engine devices like lawnmowers, chainsaws, and snowblowers.

[Coastr]

I would never put ehtanol in my car if it could be avoided. In fact I’d rather fill up with low octane and use an octane booster.

They were never designed for that rubbish and it’s a travesty that people have to use it.

[manbridge 74]

Originally Posted by cassisrot

Jeff, I got new fuel lines 2 years ago but I assume single crimp.

Steve' I lived on Indian creek near East New Market back in the 40's. Is that anywhere near you?

You should be good on the lines as I don’t think you can get the old style any longer. Just keep an eye on any lines that weren’t replaced for weeping.

[exc911ence]

Ethanol supports higher compression. The cooling effect of the alcohol content reduces the chance of detonation. I believe that it also has a higher effective octane rating than pump premium.

Of course this is E85, not the E5-10 that's normally at the pump.

The list of cons is too long to fit in this little box however....

[Quickstep192]

Originally Posted by steve911T

In Maryland, non ethanol 91 is available and runs fine in my Carrera. 87 may be a bit too low, good luck! There are several other threads on this subject. Steve

What station is that? I haven’t seen any non-ethanol gas around here in a long time.

[tirwin]

Originally Posted by exc911ence

Ethanol supports higher compression. The cooling effect of the alcohol content reduces the chance of detonation. I believe that it also has a higher effective octane rating than pump premium.

Of course this is E85, not the E5-10 that's normally at the pump.

The list of cons is too long to fit in this little box however....

Right, ethanol's octane rating is something like 113. So the gas makers can take cheaper gas, say 85 octane, and add ethanol to raise the combined octane to something like 87 (assuming E10).

The only positives are costs to produce and there is probably some related economics from ethanol production (though that is probably a contrived argument). I believe ethanol gas is better from an emissions standpoint.

Lots of negatives already mentioned. The only other significant negative is that it absorbs water. There are a few additive products that you can use (Stabil comes to mind) that are designed to mitigate the negative effects in ethanol gas.

I remember a few years ago that here in the US the government toyed with the idea of mandating E85 for all cars and some car makers (BMW was the main one I recall) said they would pull out of the US market if that happened.

[KNS]

If you’re running a non-turbo car there are NO pluses to ethanol.

To the original question - you’d probably be okay at 6500’ with non ethanol 87. I’d use it but I would run 91 on hotter days and when driving at lower elevations.

Edit: The Weltmeister chip may require 91 always so not sure if that would affect things...

[steve911T]

Quickstep,

All on the Eastern Shore, Royal Farms on 404 past Denton. Search for "non Ethanol gas" and a website pops up that lists where the non ethanol stations are per state. I guess that the stations are on the shore due to all the boating, etc. Ocean City marinas have been selling it for years, even 93 octane at one marina. Ruined an engine on a Grady White years ago. My Carrera runs better even with the 91 octane than the ethanol 93.

Steve

[tirwin]

It seems that the choice is usually either 1) run a low octane non-ethanol or 2) run a high-octane ethanol. Either way you should probably use an additive -- non-ethanol + octane booster or ethanol + Sta-bil. I'd probably choose the ethanol + octane booster but maybe it's six on one hand, half a dozen on the other and comes down to which additive is cheaper per gallon of fuel.

There is a new Shell station down the street from me that carries 91 non-ethanol (edit: corrected) so I've been using that lately. A while back it seemed like you could find non-ethanol if you knew where to look. I've noticed that some stations are now actively advertising the fact that they carry non-ethanol. At this new station they have a special sign for the non-ethanol gas pump.

[uwanna]

Originally Posted by tirwin

It seems that the choice is usually either 1) run a low octane non-ethanol or 2) run a high-octane ethanol. Either way you should probably use an additive -- non-ethanol + octane booster or ethanol + Sta-bil. I'd probably choose the ethanol + octane booster but maybe it's six on one hand, half a dozen on the other and comes down to which additive is cheaper per gallon of fuel.

There is a new Shell station down the street from me that carries 91 NON ethanol so I've been using that lately. A while back it seemed like you could find non-ethanol if you knew where to look. I've noticed that some stations are now actively advertising the fact that they carry non-ethanol. At this new station they have a special sign for the non-ethanol gas pump.

Tim,
The regular red Stabil just stops stored gas from going bad, it has no effect on the ethanol, the one you need to prevent ethanol damage is the blue Marine Stabil, just to clarify. Also fixed your "ethanol" to "non ethanol" LOL

[Tippy]

Originally Posted by Coastr

I would never put ehtanol in my car if it could be avoided. In fact I’d rather fill up with low octane and use an octane booster.

They were never designed for that rubbish and it’s a travesty that people have to use it.

What?!?! So you'd rather put 87 octane in, put in an octane booster so your total octane is around 87.3, over E10 91 to 93 octane that is proven ok?!?!

I'll tell you which one will blow your motor up faster!