What do I turn my 1.8 into?

[sasquatch]

Alright you guys. It has been many a moon since I knew VW engine formulas and what package was good for what type of power.

Our 74 1.8 needs some more ponies. Yes, I know I can just call Raby, have my CC violated and have all the HP I could dream of. That is just not an option.

My only real requirement is that it must retain original FI system, thus "looking" stock. I will be doing all the work. I still have all my old VW specific tools from back in the day when I rebuilt many a Type I and Type IV motors.

My 1.8 has 102k miles on it, runs perfect, does not leak or burn a drop of oil so I know all the internals are in great shape.

Do I just throw a set of big bores on it and call it good?

Need thoughts and opinions. Thanks in advance.

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

Sure, a 1911cc motor will put out more than a stock 1.8 will. Especially if you bump up the compression about a point. You'll have to run "super" grade fuel (probably, not certainly!) but it'll go better. A set of real headers will also help release some of the power in the motor.

Since you're keeping the L-jet, it might be prudent to use a Wide-Band O2 meter to make sure the mixture stays reasonable under most or all operating conditions. It wouldn't be any fun to lunch the motor due to running lean.

--DD

[sasquatch]

What combination of parts would put me at the 1911? Crank/P&C's.

Wide Band is a good idea. The L-jet should compensate unless I get silly. The more air passes through the AFM, the more fuel. Within reason, of course.

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

Stock crank (66mm stroke), 96mm P&Cs. Have your current cylinders "torque-plate honed"; supposedly old cylinders that have been heat-cycled a bazillion times are more dimensionally stable than the current crop of new cylinders out there. You can get some J&E or KB cast aluminum pistons and a good set of rings and be in business!

--DD

[sasquatch]

Thanks for the input. Does PP carry the pistons? Any idea where to get them "Torque-Plate Honed"?

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

We carry 96mm rings.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/9144/POR_9144_ENGpis_pg1.htm#item5
I would bet we can get the 96mm pistons, but I don't know for certain. Ask one of our Sales staff--Glenn and John are both 914 guys and should have an idea.

Rimco (http://www.rimcovw.com) should be able to hone out the cylinders.

--DD

[tat2dphreak]

aircoolednet has the pistons if PP can't get 'em...

[sasquatch]

I just had a nice long chat with a gent at SCAT. For about $1800 I can get a set of 103mm P/C, Counterweighted 2.0l crank and rods, Cam, Bearings, lifters, additional oil cooler and adapter, High volume oil pump, and all gaskets and bearings and such.

This would put me at 2366cc.

I need a towel.

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

Do a search on "103" here and on the Shoptalk Forums "Type 4um". They're not well thought-of....

--DD

[pinetreeporsche]

I want more ponies, too--my dad had a 348 cube '58 Chevy when I was a teen, and it did 0-60 in 8 flat--despite years of vw vans, starting w/ a 40-horse, I think a sports car should feel sporty off the line. I saw sasquatch's reference to a kit (?) by scat. Don't know them, went to google, found a reference to scat engine stuff at import performance parts. So, Sas, is this the place to go, or can you give us newcomers more info on where to find which parts? I have a '72 2.0, am considering a do-it-myself Raby package, but the $ is much bigger with Jake. (I rebuilt a VW type 2 somewhen back in the hippy daze, maybe in '74, and swapped out a vanagon tranny recently, so can probably meet the minimum job qualifications. Would you take a bit off the heads to get a little more compression??--how much more? Anyone else w/ experience at low-ish cost power boost please throw your two cents, or pfennigs, in! -pinetreeporsche

[rfn026]

I've got a lot of the same questions here. I'm ready to do a motor for my Super Vee. I'm thinking along the lines of a 2.5 Type IV. What combination seems to work well. I don't want to spend a whole bunch of money, but would like to see 200 bhp.

Richard

[Bleyseng]

Originally posted by sasquatch
I just had a nice long chat with a gent at SCAT. For about $1800 I can get a set of 103mm P/C, Counterweighted 2.0l crank and rods, Cam, Bearings, lifters, additional oil cooler and adapter, High volume oil pump, and all gaskets and bearings and such.

This would put me at 2366cc.

I need a towel.

No Ljet system is going to run your 2.4L. cast iron 103mm suck as they leak at the heads after a very short while, maybe 10k miles. You can can Nikkies if you really want that big of a motor.
Go to a 2056cc motor by getting a 71mm 2.0L crank and rods and 96mm pistons. Witha proper cam/lifters you will be in the 100hp range without jumping to the 2.0l 914 heads.
With 914 2.0l heads you can get in the 115hp range which really wakes up a 914 so its really a sports car.

[Tuneitup]

Then there is the cam to consider. I took out the web cam and put the stock cam back in my L-jet, 1.8 L 66mm x 96mm engine. But.... it's a daily driver. What are you doing with your car? Racing? If so you may want to look at other cams. I think Jake is the man here, lots of R & D, he has developed spit-duration camshafts for all kinds of engine combos (that are reasonably priced). I think Jake also has developed an EFI brain that can be used with L-jet, and can be used for engines larger than 2 liters. Problem is it costs 2000 beans. So surf around, read the shop talk forums. I wish someone would write a book about engine combinations, and how to build a stroker engine. Maybe when Jake retires.

[Dave at Pelican Parts]

A Super Vee is a different animal than a 914 street car. The Vee should see frequent inspections and frequent rebuilds. It is possible that the large-bore cylinders might work well enough for long enough on the Vee. Cooling the cast-iron 103s is always difficult, though!

78mm stroke is doable without major heroics, though I believe a reduced base-circle cam is required so the rods don't hit the cam lobes. (Ouch!) IIRC, 76mm stroke can be done with Bug journals on the crank and you can use a regular base-circle cam. 76x96 gives you a 2200cc engine, almost exactly! Do that one "right" and you can probably get close to 200 HP out of it for a short period of time. Expect to put big bucks into the cylinder heads, though. And you'll need very good balancing and lightweight valve train parts to make sure that it can spin to the revs needed to make that kind of power...

A similar displacement street motor should still be good for 120-150 HP pretty easily, though it would probably be a good idea to have the heads worked by someone who knows what they're doing. You may be able to get L-jet to cope with the higher displacement, but you might wind up needing to start swapping parts (e.g., air flow meters, injectors, etc.) to get it to work OK. Then there's fine-tuning, which is something of a pain with the analog ECU setup we have... The WBO2 would be an absolute necessity, though, and you'd have to be ready with "plan B" and "plan C" in case you can't get the L-jet to work well with the big motor.

There's a lot of stuff that can be done. If you want to just buy stuff and put it together with no heartache or worries that it won't fit or won't work together, pay Jake what he's asking. If you want to dig into it all yourself and have the triumphs and tragedies of figuring it all out, start investigating where to buy parts...

--DD

[rfn026]

I'm a huge believer in Jake. I just send Jake $ and he sends me the right parts. It seems to be working.

Richard

[sasquatch]

I agree with trusting Jake. I was just hoping that with the nuber of cars on this forum someone would have gone down the same route that I am considering and had a good "plan" to share.

Back in the day, (early 80's) my thing was VW's and I worked in a VW parts shop. With type 1's we had many "formulas" on what would work and what kind of power you could expect. I ran everything from a mild 1641 that actually ran really good all the way up to a 2127cc screamer that could get the front end of my 67 type III to just see daylight under the tires. Yeah, I had the one piece fiberglass hood and a reallly light front end, but that motor screamed.

My intentions for the 914 are about 2500 miles a year. 5-8 autocross days and one hill climb day. That is all we use her. I am just about convinced that I will swap to webers as I have seen some pretty good deals on fleabay. With only 2500 miles/year, we could probably use the 103's and get 4-5 years out of them. But I dont know.

I guess a call into Jake is in order.

[mike mueller]

My only real requirement is that it must retain original FI system, thus "looking" stock.

You can do a few things...have a "stock" 1911 and keep the FI looking stock cause it will be stock....

or....

build a hotter motor (bigger bore with more aggressive cam) and keep most of the L-Jet components but replace the ECU with a megasquirt (if on a budget) or a Link if you want to spend about $800 more....you can have a heck of a hot motor and keep the stock "looking" components....you will reach a certain point to where the stock plenum will not flow enough air, but so far 2270's have worked..........

[Grantsfo]

You can do what I did. Trade it for labor to convert your 914-4 to a 914-6. Yahoooo!

[AL MEREDITH]

I have a set of brand new 1800 CC pistons and cylinders still in the box that are EURO. They are dombed like a 1700 instead of the dish found on the USA 1800. I think that is worth 1 point in CR. Let me know if you are interested. I also have 2 1800CC heads that are opened up a little and have larger seats installed by Len Hoffman. larger seats because they are set up with duel springs. Al ljgmere@aol.com

[jd74914]

Originally posted by Dave at Pelican Parts
We carry 96mm rings.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/9144/POR_9144_ENGpis_pg1.htm#item5
I would bet we can get the 96mm pistons, but I don't know for certain. Ask one of our Sales staff--Glenn and John are both 914 guys and should have an idea.

Rimco (http://www.rimcovw.com) should be able to hone out the cylinders.

--DD

Any idea how much they would charge?