Costs of a S2 vs. 951

[cditch]

I absolutely love both of these cars, and I plan to own one of the two by spring. From now until then I need to decide which one, an then once decided I need to start shopping for the "Right" one. So I need the help of the members on the board. There seem to be alot more 951 owners than S2 owners on this board but I would like to here from both owners on their respective car. This car will be a daily driver/DE/autox car. So which ever I get, I plan to tweek the suspension a bit. But I am not gonna spend alot of money on go fast goodies until I learn to drive better. The chasis are basically the same in these cars, so the biggest question mark is gonna be maintenance of the engine. How reliable is the stock turbo? Stuff like that. Also what should I look for when going to purchase. I will definitely get a pre-purchase inspection done.
Thanks, and have a nice day,
Chris

[Dave951]

Chris-
I drive a 951 as my daily driver. I enjoy all of its characteristics in stock form. It is plenty fast, it turns well, etc. I also looked at S2's when shopping and went with the turbo for several reasons. First, you can generally find a turbo for much cheaper than an equivalent condition S2. Sencond, it is much cheaper to add power to the turbo. Third, there are a lot more people that are knowledgable on turbos to help with problems.

These were just a few reasons, but they made a big difference for me. Looking at it the other way, if I knew that I would never want more power, I would probably have tried to obtain an S2. This is because it is nice not to have turbo-related problems. However, I think that the 951 has less turbo problems than the average turbo for several reasons. The only problem I've had with mine was that the moron who owned the car before me let it inhale a bolt from the airbox. Obviously, this destroyed the turbo. Since I replaced it, it hasn't given me any grief. Hope this helps.

Dave

[Obin Robinson]

sometime down the road i am going to add either a 951 or a 928 to the collection.

i have talked at length to owners of both and they are indeed incedible cars. from what i understand though, the 951s are more fun and they are bulletproof mechanically.

the S2s are very competitive and are excellent track cars. in fact the 944S2s are doing very well in Motorola Cup competition this year. not bad for 9 year old cars!

honestly, i'd say to drive both and see which one you like better. i think you'll like the immediate power and torque of the S2.. but the "kick your ass" acceleration of the 944 turbo is absolutely unreal... like some top-fuel dragster. ever heard of the "20 dollars on the dash" test? those are done in 951s all the time by their owners.

still undecided?

flip a coin

good luck either way and have fun searching!

obin

[T86951]

I have an '86 951 and the only problem so far after 3 years (knock on wood) is the header pipe is leaking a little on the last cylinder, don't think that has anything to being turbo though. I have not driven a S2 but have driven a '94 968 which has more power than the S2. The 968 had a lot of power and I think would outrun my turbo from a standing start (torque is strong) but I think the turbo is faster from a 60 mph tromp. It was really hard to tell for sure though. I sometimes think about selling my turbo and getting an S2 but never have. If I could start over I may get an S2 but this turbo only had 50,000 miles and was like new so I bought it. Its a hard decission!

[PrerYDoG]

Okay...I'm going to show my age here I think...but what is the "20 dollars on the dash" test?

[cditch]

It is when you put a 20 dollar bill on the dashboard and tell the passenger that if he can reach out and grab it he can have it. After he agrees you drop the clutch mash the pedal and if all goes well he will be so buried in his seat he wont be able to reach out and grab the 20 dollar bill. As far as I know it was mostly used with old muscle cars.

Chris

You can't be much younger than I am, if that is what you were referring to with the age thing. I am only 19.

[Obin Robinson]

heh heh cditch, you got it. there was a guy where i used to work who's brother did the 20 dollar test in his 951. he would get going up to 100mph in the time that most people's cars would take to get to 40 or so. the thing i like about the 951 a lot is that it does not LOOK that fast. yeah, it looks like a fast car, but when you see them accelerating in front of you it still seems unreal.

offhand, we saw this 500Hp 951 race car a few months back. the thing was a PURE track car. the guy only wanted like $6,000 for it too. needed cosmetic work. the full grasp of the situation didn't really hit me until much later...

500Hp in a 2200lb car for $6,000.

damn! day late and a dollar short.

obin

[cditch]

Hey Obin, I just got a email from the guys at Huntley Racing and they said they are releasing a bolt on supercharger kit for the S2. It yieled 100hp gain on their test car. That should be a hell of a lot of fun.

Chris

[Obin Robinson]

bolt on supercharger... awesome!!!! i hope they come out with something for the early N/A 944s too.

thanks for the update!

obin

[Harp]

There are superchargers available for 85.5 to 87 N/A. The 1988 had different compression ratio, so I'm told a supercharger won't work so good. I don't know about prior to 85.5. Below is a reply from a source for superchargers.

From: pburch@chattanooga.net
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 1999 10:05 AM
To: Harp
Subject: Re: supercharger

Good morning:
Yes, we do have a supercharger kit for the 85.5-87 944. We don’t have anything for 1988 on, nor the S or S2. The reason is that after ‘87 the stock compression ratio is too high for any reasonable amount of boost, i.e. supercharging wouldn’t be cost effective. Since the 944 kit is intended to be strictly a bolt-on the higher CR precludes supercharging the later models. We have also found that as a group the 944 owners aren’t generally willing to do internal engine work to accomodate supercharging. This is in direct contrast to the 911 owners as a group.
We don’t have any quantitative data on engine life. Obviously if you extract that much more power out of a machine, and do it often, then wear is going to increase. No doubt about it. How much is hard to quantify, particularly since the kits usually go on cars with some miles on them already. We’ve not seen any catastrophic failures (that we know of) in the 944 kits, but the potential is always there in any boosted engine (supercharged or turbocharged) particularly if a load of bad fuel is encountered or if the user attempts to run track events using street premium fuel.
Thank you for your inquiry.
Paul Burch
Supercharging of Knoxville

[Fritz87S]

If you decide on the S2, you may also want to do some shopping for a 968. Newer version of the S2 with a little more power. I've noticed good S2's are staying in the 10k-15k range and that 968s have now dropped into the 17k-21k range. I think 968s are getting price pressure from 1997 and 1998 Boxters which are going for 30k.

[todd951]

Another thing you need to consider with the 968 is that they are very rare, so if you ever have to replace a part, the odds are that you won't be able to find it used so you'll have to lay out the cash for a new part.
The 968 is a very nice car, but I wouldn't consider it unless you're sure you can afford to fix it if it breaks.

[rben]

Obin, there is a company in Colorado Springs called Rimmer Engineering. They have a super charger for a 944. I was on vacation there 2 years ago and happened to be at the car wash at the same time as the guy who was instrumental in engineering the kit. It looked like a real clean installation. The guy that I talked with owned an 86 951. He told me that the supercharged car would beat his 951 up to 130 mph. I believe he told me that the cost was about $2700. They have a web site I am not sure, but it's probably
rimmereng.com

------------------

[todd951]

It's at http://www.rimmersuperchargers.com/944.html

The web site says it's $2995.

[Pilot_951S]

Having previsouly owned and S2 and an 87 951 and now an 88' 951S and an 88' 951 Track car I can definitly say that if you plan to autoX the S2 is a much better car. It also make a better daily driver, and without a doubt it is less expensive to maintain so long as you pay attention to the timing chain tensioner. (break one of these and you may crack the head)

The S2 has many mechanical benefits that are advantageous to relability, drive-ability and power production. (S2 motors can be easily made to produce 300hp)

Also there is rarity, there are fewer S2s than 968s. The best would be to find an S2 with the M030 suspension as that has a nice brake upgrade (same as Turbo S) but any part of the suspension can be easily upgraded.

In any case, I loved my S2 and I WILL have another one when my budget allows.

I also love my 951s but for your stated uses (street/atuoX) the S2 is IMO a better car (especially for AutoX)

Now I have the best of everything; a Subaru Daily Driver, a 951S for Weekends and a 951 track car for (what else) the track.

[ez944]

doesnt the 951 have just a little over 220 hp? how can it be so fast thats about yhe same as a Camaro or Mustang? Not to down play the cars I have a 944 and love it, but its slow. I can run my bike around 10 sec. 1/4 and will out corner my car, but I get wet when it rains and my wife won't let me bring my son to daycare with it.
I love my car but my bike is fast

[944Driver]

How can it be so fast? The turbocharger answers that question. I used to own a '91 Eagle Talon Turbo AWD. Without the turbo, the Talon is an enemic performing car. With the turbo and AWD, the car would give a 951 and Mustang GT a run for their money. BTW, the Talon Turbo AWD hp was only rated at about 190.

[cditch]

You gotta look at the weight of the cars you mentioned to. The 944 Turbo weighs around 2900-3000 lbs. The mustang and Camaros weigh well over 3400 pounds. It makes a big difference.

Chris

[Pilot_951S]

Also look at teh power delivery, the 951 once the bost is up makes power all the way to redline,a N/A car doens't come anywhere close to achieving this.

[Porsche 951 Fanatic]

THE 951 LIVES!!!!!!