Engine Back in : No start : So Close!

[Zero10]

So, I presume you are not getting tach movement when you turn it over?
Though I would toss that in there, since I didn't see the answer.

0.5v sounds too low, maybe around 1.0V I would see it still working...

[88_944]

I glued a 0.8mm washer on the speed sensor like the book says to get the right distance.

When I primed the oil pump w/o the DME relay, I think that caused my engine to run bad. The engine sounded like it had a vacuum leak so I check all my vacuums and found no leaks. I thought of resetting the system by taking off the battary positive side for just a minute. I connect the battery back and it ran smooth.

Try it.

[AFJuvat]

Originally posted by ae1969
So ...its 5 mm from the pin to the sensor ..........awesome AF! I will check ..........

Socal......

1. yup the wave I posted... is for the speed sensor..... and I stretched it so it would be more noticeable.... otherwise to spec.... I was getting easily a 3 Volt swing.... So it was reading the ring gear nicely.

2. The reference set-screw.
When I ran the oscilloscope on the reference sensor.......I would get a 0.5 volt spike as it read the set screw........... Now 3 things..... that I havent ruled out.....but hopefully will determine today.

a. set screw not at the right height (AF just gave me the number to check). The Fidanza wheel came with the set screw in place........ oddly enough the fidanza wheels circumference is maybe 2-3 mm less than stock..... but the pin sticks out further......... so it look dead on.

b. the harness has a short or craked wire.

c. the new sensor is bad.


I will get back to you guys after I check the above.

Thanks!

No!

it is 5mm +\-0.1mm from the edge of the flywheel to the top of the pin.

AFJuvat

[ae1969]

Ok... So here is the smoking gun.



Things I overlooked and coming to grips with .......

1. the fidanza wheel is not the same diameter as the stock flywheel. I would say it was 2-3 mm smaller. PLUS from the pic you can see the pin is almost flush whereas the stock flywheel has the 5mm height that AF is referring to.

2. I only looked to make sure the pin lined up. DIDNT CHECK THE FRIGGEN HEIGHT.

3. Now I have to back the pin out or replace it with a longer one..... Thank goodness this can be accessed from the reference sensor hole.

4. LIVE AND LEARN.

[ae1969]

AF..........

So what would be the airspace between the sensor and the pin ?

I wonder if anyone has ever measured it? Since everyone sets the first speed sensor and the second lines up.

[AFJuvat]

As long as the speed sensor is a the proper height (0.8mm) and the bracket is not moved, the ref sensor shoud be at the correct height automatically.

To tell ya the truth, I've never measured it either. I am assuming that is would have to bein the neighborhood of 0.8mm to the top of the locating pin.

AFJuvat

[ae1969]

Well........ I am going to go for the same setting on both.

It makes sense..... there is about a 1/4 inch space which ~6-7 mm right now. So it would make sense that the clearance would be the same for both.

So the pin will have to come out ~6 mm......

This is going to be ......oh so fun.

[SoCal Driver]

Note: The extra mounting bracket I have has the sensors staggered in height. The front one is about 1/8" higher than the back. Or am I missing something?

[ae1969]

Socal you are right and thats what I keep tossing through my head..... but are the ring gear and stock flywheel the same diameter ?

I am thinking there is a little more room to work with on the refence sensor and the 0.8 may not be as critical on that sensor...........but as of now..........I have a good 5 mm of air space. Hence only the 0.5 Volt spike not 2V.

The lucky thing is that I may be able to get away with a larger gap since the flywheel is aluminum and the pin is steel.

I think I will back it out a couple of turns.... check for volt spike on the oscilloscope.......

[ae1969]

Ok here are the specs on the screw for the fidanza wheel. (from tech support)

"IT IS A 1/4" 20 X 3/4 SET SCREW. IT CAN BE ADJUSTED
WITH A 1/8" ALLEN KEY. WHEN INSTALLING MEASURE THE
SENSOR FIRST WITH A VENIER CALIPER THEN MEASURE THE
DISTANCE FROM THE MOUNTING SURFACE TO SET SCREW. ALLOW
FOR.030 CLEARANCE. MAKE SURE THE SET SCREW GETS
LOCTITE ON IT."

So I have 3/4" to play with.... so I will get at her and let you know how it goes.

[SoCal Driver]

The starter ring gear is the same even if you put it on a wood flywheel. The variable here is the OD that the pin (set screw) is screwed into. I would use the OD of the ring gear as the base to set the pin (set screw).

[carsontc]

Originally posted by Zero10
So, I presume you are not getting tach movement when you turn it over? Thought I would toss that in there, since I didn't see the answer.

there are several reports that when you can't start the engine and while cranking the tach does not pulse a little...then you got no spark and it is likely the reference sensor or it's spacing is out of spec.

Alex, just curious...did you notice the tach while cranking?

[ae1969]

SHE LIVES !!!!!!!!!! BUUUUAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA


Ok here is my adjustment sensor with 0.8 mm washer on it..... and the little reference pin from the fidanza wheel. THE PIN IS ACTUALLY ONLY 3/8 long not 3/4 as fidanzas tech supports states........thank goodness I was using a magnetic allen key.



So setting the height on the flywheel side was not too bad. I took some measurements of the depth and had an idea what I had to work with .... approximately 6 mm of the reference pin had to stick out as opposed to the 5 mm for the stock wheel.

So I put some loctite on the pin.... fished it in with a magnetic allen key (YOU DO NOT WANT TO DROP IT IN THE BELL HOUSING). Slowly screwed it in approximately 3 turns.......

Now you put a thin film of white grease on the end of the measuring sensor with the 0.8 mm washer..... push it in.... voila ... it touches... so you adjust half turn in/out .... until you dont touch. Back it up a half turn.

Then you stick a good reference sensor in.......... and make sure it doesnt touch.......... you are now done!

Started car.... 1st try.... brrrrooooooooooommmm

Here is the pic of the oscilloscope wave. Much harder to catch it on film.... since it only appears once per revolution of the crank.





Thank you all for being my sounding board.!!! Socal and AF owe you one..... or a 6 pack.....


AND THIS IS WHAT IS NOW RUNNING.

[ae1969]

Carson... the tach jumps ever so slightly...... even with no reference signal. THe cars vibration was enough to get it to move while cranking.

It will crank at 200rpm so it should in theory just barely jump. I wouldnt say its a definitive way to diagnoze a no start....but some cars may be more sensitive to it.

[kenbui02860]

Check your igniter modular if your car don't have one then check the igniter coil behind the distributor pulley.

[carsontc]

good stuff...congrats...a big congrats...looks great !

and thanks for the pix of the Fidanza flywheel...now I know what that flywheel is that I have in my basement !

[carsontc]

Ken...good point if it was a 16v, cuz it wudda had the separate ignition module and the hall TDC sender behind the cam gear...Alex's is only a screaming 8 valve

[AFJuvat]

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!!!

Looks sweet

AFJuvat

[kenbui02860]

Just want to know did you get your car started yet

[pearldrum]

WOW! That engine bay looks awesome. Nice work.