My brake pedal is like butter

pearljaman31 · 02-02-2006, 08:56 AM

For my brake job im getting 4 new rotors, new pads in the front (already have pretty new pads in the rear)... braided stainless steel brake lines and super blue brake fluid for about $300. (***********) My brake pedal feels very soft and its very easy for it to be pushed down. I have noticed some slight brake fluid leakage but nothing too significant. My slave cylinder is new on there and i thought that fixed my brake fluid leak earlier. If i put these parts on, would this solve my braking problem? Why does the pedal go down so easily? Do i need a master cylinder too? Its an 83 944.

GostRidr · 02-02-2006, 09:05 AM

You didn't say where the leakage is now coming from. Maybe the leak has let some air in and bleeding it would alleviate for now?

Good luck!

pearljaman31 · 02-02-2006, 09:16 AM

Im not sure where its leaking. My slave was leaking and i replaced it. Ive noticed when i look at my resevoir, the fluid level slowly goes down over a timespan of about a week. The fluid is also dirty and brownish in color.

nynor · 02-02-2006, 09:30 AM

yeah, you need to flush the whole thing. if its really bad, a new master cylinder, etc.

Techno Duck · Techno Duck's Garage

Loosing brake fluid is something you should seriously look into. It may be a small leak now and its only a matter of time before it gets worse. Its not to hard to figure out where your leak is coming from considering there are a number of trouble spots which are all fairly easy to check.

I would start by pulling off all four wheels one by one and inspecting the caliper pistons and bleed screws for signs of leakage or excess dirt accumulation. Check the rubber brake lines also. I see your car is an '83, and its possible your brake lines were never replaced. Thats more than 20 year old rubber that has been subject to all of the elements including high pressure. It may be a good idea to replace those anyway. A set of stainless lines can be had for under $75.00 and is a good thing to change regardless if they are leaking or not.

If everything checks out here, inspect the master cylinder around where it connects to the resevoir on top. Also check around your clutch pedal for signs of wetness. Its possible the braided rubber line is leaking (fairly common).

Your spongy / soft (however you want to describe it) brake pedal is a result of the brake fluid leak. Either its forcing fluid out or you have sucked in air through where your leak is. If your slave cylinder was initially leaking, its a good bet your master cylinder will eventually, or has already developed leaks. They see the same amount of usage and should on most cases be replaced at the same time. When you isolate the leak and replace whatever is the problem, you should absolutley flush the entire brake system and get new fluid in there. Brake fluid is clear with a slight brown / gold tint (or just straight up blue) depending on the brand, it should NOT look like CocaCola (what i got when i flushed my system!).

Razorback1980 · Razorback1980's Garage

No, the parts you described will not fix your problem in case you didn't figure that out from what everyone already said. I would suggest if your budget for brakes is only 300, send back the rotors and possibly the ss brake lines and get the parts to fix the leak and new front brake pads. If you still have money left at that point you can install the ss lines and new rotors. If not, put them on later. Your small leak will eventually be a big leak and you may lose your brakes at that point. For your own safety, get it fixed asap.

ae1969 · 02-02-2006, 04:35 PM

Well.............. if your only indication of a leak is the brake fluid coming down. Bleed the system before you go off spending more money.

Its a literal PITA to ass bleed the system........ but it needs to be done properly. Once the pedal is firm then we can access wether you have a problem or not. This includes bleeding the clutch pedal....

pearljaman31 · 02-03-2006, 06:14 AM

Im going to keep the rotors anyway b/c i need them. When i purchased the car from the other owner brakes were the only thing he never touched or changed out on the car when he rebuilt it. I purchased braided stainless steel brake lines to replace my old ones. Also..i have noticed a bit of wetness on the floor near the clutch pedal which i assume has to be the fluid. Its not super wet, but noticeable.

Razorback1980 · Razorback1980's Garage

You know what you need to do better than I would, i just remember you saying you had limited budget and rotors can be resurfaced sometimes. Replacing old brake lines isn't a bad idea either, providing there is budget for it.

My clutch cylinder that was up there was leaking when my floor was coated with brake fluid, you would have thought there could have been a better design than putting brake fluid on the carpet. I somehow wound up with an extra new one. I'll look, if I still have it, it's yours. I'll check tonight when I get home and let you know.

AaronM · 02-03-2006, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pearljaman31
Im going to keep the rotors anyway b/c i need them. When i purchased the car from the other owner brakes were the only thing he never touched or changed out on the car when he rebuilt it. I purchased braided stainless steel brake lines to replace my old ones. Also..i have noticed a bit of wetness on the floor near the clutch pedal which i assume has to be the fluid. Its not super wet, but noticeable.

Clutch or brake master cylinder. If you replace the clutch master, replace the slave as well. They tend to wear at about the same rate, so if the clutch master has failed, it's usually only a short amount of time before the slave fails too.

pearljaman31 · 02-09-2006, 10:44 AM

My mechanic said he saw a very tiny leak of fluid coming through the front drivers side caliper. A new caliper is like $100 plus installation so im not sure right now. This brake job is costing way more than i thought it would...$380 for parts..plus at least $300 labor. He also said the front rotors will take longer b/c they dont come off easily for some reason, i forgot the reason he gave me, but the rear ones are easy. Argh. I hate money.

Zero10 · 02-09-2006, 02:22 PM

Rears are super-easy.
2 caliper bolts, 2 phillips screws, done.
Fronts are tougher, remove the caliper, axle nut, then seperate the rotor from the hub.
Not a LOT harder, but more than the 5 minutes/side the rears take

pearljaman31 · 02-09-2006, 02:26 PM

Good im glad the rears take 5 min and im paying an hr of labor for it...Grr.. I need to learn how to do this stuff on my own.

toolboy62 · 02-09-2006, 03:19 PM

not to be a smartass, but yes you do. Next time you're at Harbor Freight pick up a hand impact driver and one of the cheesy little bearing packers, also a brass drift and a BFH. I ASSume you already have wrenches, sockets, and Allen wrenches. That should be enough to get you through this. Clark's Garage probably has a "how to" or someone could post and walk you through it. It isn't that difficult, in the grand scheme of things.

944s can get real expensive real fast when you start paying people to work on them... (I should know, mine is in the shop right now because I'm even poorer in time than money.)

nate

pearljaman31 · 02-14-2006, 08:50 AM

Well its done. $400.55 in labor. New pads and rotors all the way around, new lines, and fixed the leaky caliper. I spent $400 on parts so a grand total of $800. I guess thats somewhat standard for a brand new brake job. He said my master cylinder is getting a little weak but its still ok. I know my car is not gonna brake like my moms 2004 toyota, its 23 yrs old. You know how the newer cars are, you can stop on a dime. You'd think for $800 though my brakes would be a little better. I havent noticed a large amount of more braking power. Am i just being negative?

yellowline · 02-14-2006, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pearljaman31
I know my car is not gonna brake like my moms 2004 toyota, its 23 yrs old. You know how the newer cars are, you can stop on a dime. You'd think for $800 though my brakes would be a little better. I havent noticed a large amount of more braking power. Am i just being negative?

With fresh parts, good fluid, and proper adjustment and bleeding, the brakes should be even better. The 944 weighs less than almost anything new out there, and that's a big benefit to braking.

When my friends ride with me, they ask why I stop so fast. I'm barely pressing on the brake! They don't feel like 911 brakes, but I'd trust them in an emergency.

Jer944 · 02-14-2006, 09:39 AM

if he is on tight money why get the bearing packer when it just as easy to do by hand

Tervuren · Tervuren's Garage

A 944 with decent tires should be able to sling a passenger to the end of their seatbelt if you take them by surprise. (experience

)

toolboy62 · 02-14-2006, 01:33 PM

bearing packer is like $3 at Harbor Freight, and very useful IMHO. takes 1/4 the time of packing by hand and probably more thorough.

nate

toolboy62 · 02-14-2006, 01:34 PM

oh yeah you should notice an improvement in braking power once the pads wear in. Might need a little more force on the pedal than you are used to in other cars but it should downright stop, no need to make "it's an old car" excuses.

nate