Sway Bars Question

[Rudeboy42]

So I have an '87 944 NA and right now the handling is garbage. Lately I've been doing quite a bit of autocross with the car so I'm trying to improve the whole suspension one piece at a time. Right now I'm looking for sway bars. My car didn't come with a rear one so I definitely want to get that but, I also want to upgrade them to much larger bars to reduce the unholy amount of body roll my car gets.(see pictures below) Anyways I just found a good deal on a front M030 sway bar and I think I can get a rear one for a reasonable price. My question is what else would I need to put these sway bars in my car? I know I'll need bushings for the front and rear and drop links for the rear but what else do I need?

[The Glademister]

Koni Sport adjustable shocks front and back would help. Lower the trailing arms in the rear and install 1.5" 200-250 lb. lowering springs in the front. If you get the rear 18 mm 3-way adjustable sway bar that's part of the M030 package, the 30 mm front sway bar might be a little too stiff. I've done all of the above and got a little more understeer than I'd like to have.

[ewalt98]

To mount the new bars:
For the front, you will need a larger retaining bracket, along with the larger bushings. Get the cheap triangulation braces too.
For the rear, you also need the bushing straps and the drop link mounting bolt, which should come with the bar since it is NLA, at least on Pelican. My used bar came with them.

I just did the exact same thing, adding a rear bar and upgrading the front, though not to the M030 set, just the late 80's turbo size.
It made an quite a difference in corning, where before I was understeering quite badly, now I am much more neutral, with a hint of overseer with the throttle. I will probably put in a slightly larger front bar for a little more balance.
BTW, I also just put in a strut brace, and that also helps noticeably in hard cornering.

[Rudeboy42]

Originally Posted by The Glademister

Koni Sport adjustable shocks front and back would help. Lower the trailing arms in the rear and install 1.5" 200-250 lb. lowering springs in the front. If you get the rear 18 mm 3-way adjustable sway bar that's part of the M030 package, the 30 mm front sway bar might be a little too stiff. I've done all of the above and got a little more understeer than I'd like to have.

That's basically what I'm planning on doing eventually. The front bar isn't a 30mm though he said it's 26.5mm. Did they make two sizes of the m030? This one's off of an '89 turbo S. Do you think a 26.5mm in the front with an 18mm in the back will be a good combo?

I just did the exact same thing, adding a rear bar and upgrading the front, though not to the M030 set, just the late 80's turbo size.
It made an quite a difference in corning, where before I was understeering quite badly, now I am much more neutral, with a hint of overseer with the throttle. I will probably put in a slightly larger front bar for a little more balance.
BTW, I also just put in a strut brace, and that also helps noticeably in hard cornering.
Today 12:34 PM

I was originally looking for 944 turbo sway bars but I found this one pretty cheap and I think I'll get it.

I always wondered if those strut braces actually work. Maybe I'll get one at some point during my suspension upgrade.

[Tidybuoy]

I have the 30mm front sway bar on my car and it is from the 968 as well as the m030 rear. I think it was one of the best improvements I've done.

I had alerady added Koni's, stronger front lowering springs, adjusted the rear height to match the front, and Turbo 16" rims.

When I added the 30mm bar, to my surprize, the ride comfort improved substantially, even on the straight aways. Even though the sway bar is primarily for the turns, it helps on straight pavement too because not all bumps are on both sides of the car. The 30mm added much more control to the entire ride and handling and really eliminated the ride harshness that came with the addition of Koni's.

I would recommend getting the triangular front swaybar brace as I hit a serius pothole onetime and snapped the stock bracket in 1/2.

[Rudeboy42]

How much does it usually cost to get the torsion bars reindexed at a shop? Cause I'd definitely like to lower my car a little

[flash968]

oof!

IF you can find a shop who will do it, you are looking at about 8 hours of labor, but be prepared for it to be more, as most people miss the first time on how many teeth to move it, and guess who gets to pay for the time to correct it

best suggestion would be to get a firm price, and not let them do it by the hour

if the eccentrics don't lower it enough, and you can't live with it, get the checkbook ready

p.s. you get to do an alignment afterward too

rough guess would be about $1000 to do the job

[Roman944]

take this one step at a time

do the sway bars first, then shocks and sport springs in the front, by that time you will have a good idea as to where you still want to improve your suspension

I say sway bars first because they are the easiest to get out of the way, and you will do them eventually anyways, so might as well get that out of the way

get good shocks - either koni or billstein hd's, autocross springs in the front, drive your car for a little bit and see if you still want even more improvement

everyone wants a different thing out of their car, some daily their car and autocross, while others just autocross, and others have "race" cars - and they all value improvement in response differently, because some cars are daily driven while others are not

once you see what makes you happy, you can decide if you want to do torsion bars, or switch to rear coil over system

this way you don't dump a whole lot of $$$ at the same time, and you get to do everything in a nice progressing way - you learn more about the car, and what improves and where improvement still needs to be done

and also, HOLY body roll! especially that rear 3/4 shot! wow!

& also, don't be afraid to start with softer spring first, you will always find a buyer for a used 200-250lbs springs, and they happen to be a pretty good match to stock torsion bars, so if you still want to go "lower" and "stiffer", it won't cost you an arm and a leg

good luck! this is what I'll be doing ...

[Rudeboy42]

I guess I'm getting a little ahead of myself talking about springs and reindexing my torsion bars. You're right I should just be taking this one step at a time otherwise it gets pretty overwhelming pretty fast.

So, back to the sway bars. Now that I know what to get to install them what size rear bar should I get? The front is 26.5mm so what should I do for the back to get a good balance and avoid getting too much oversteer or understeer?

[Rasta Monsta]

Fattest one you can find. I recommend the 968 M030 unit, 19mm adjustable, still available new from PCNA at a reasonable cost.

[J1NX3D]

i got a used 18mm rear bar for my 26.8mm front bar.

to fit it i bought drop links secondhand from dcauto and a rear swaybar adaptor kit from paragon Porsche 924S and 944 Rear Sway Bar Adapter Kit.

[porsche4life]

Originally Posted by Rasta Monsta

Fattest one you can find. I recommend the 968 M030 unit, 19mm adjustable, still available new from PCNA at a reasonable cost.

Lindsey Racing sells a 19mm that is 5way adjustable.... For $120... It made a monumental difference on my car going from a 13mm to the 19mm....

[Roman944]

Originally Posted by porsche4life

Lindsey Racing sells a 19mm that is 5way adjustable.... For $120... It made a monumental difference on my car going from a 13mm to the 19mm....

this is what I was going to suggest as well, its 5-way adjustable - which is better then 3-way 968 bar

or, you could go with Weltmeister sway bars, 28mm front and 22mm rear, they are expensive though, VERY

you can find a good deal on the 18mm rear sway bar, they are pretty cheap compared to 19mm sway bar, and again, if later on you want to go bigger - you will pretty much always find a buyer for this one, so don't be afraid to experiment a little

[Rudeboy42]

I found an 18mm rear sway bar locally. The guy said he wants $100 for the bar and hardware. I think I'll go check that out tommorrow.

Does that sound like a fair price? I figure the hardware usually costs around $90 and an 18mm sway bar's usually about $85.

[J1NX3D]

does that include droplinks?

try and get new bushings still if you can.

[flash968]

it all comes down to what you plan to do with the car - reducing body roll is not always a good thing - in autocross, it can actually cost you time - further, if you don't have the springs to handle it, it is easy to overbar the car - it's all a balancing act

from the shots, there is more roll than desired, but as soon as you reduce it, you will begin to find that those tires are too small and too tall, and that may be a slippery slope you don't want to go down

that being said, the 968 M030 bars are decent for spring and wheel rates up to about 275# front and rear wheel rates of about 275 - after that, you need bigger bars for a track car, but can still get away with those on street cars

a less expensive improvement would be to grab a set of standard 968 bars - they can be had for nearly nothing - the front will be 26.8mm and the rear will be 16mm - typically a set can be had for less than $200, complete with bushings

[Rudeboy42]

Well I got that 18mm rear bar today all ready to go in the car for $100.

And as a plus when I left the guy's house I found some crazy winding roads. So me and my friend played around on them for a bit. Me in the 944 and him in his E36 325is. But I can't help but feel ripped off cause I had the bar right there in the car and I didn't feel any diffenence in handling. I mean it was right there in the trunk the whole time. LOL JK

But seriously now I just can't wait to get my front one.

[Laptop_geek]

Originally Posted by flash968

it all comes down to what you plan to do with the car - reducing body roll is not always a good thing - in autocross, it can actually cost you time - further, if you don't have the springs to handle it, it is easy to overbar the car - it's all a balancing act

from the shots, there is more roll than desired, but as soon as you reduce it, you will begin to find that those tires are too small and too tall, and that may be a slippery slope you don't want to go down

that being said, the 968 M030 bars are decent for spring and wheel rates up to about 275# front and rear wheel rates of about 275 - after that, you need bigger bars for a track car, but can still get away with those on street cars

a less expensive improvement would be to grab a set of standard 968 bars - they can be had for nearly nothing - the front will be 26.8mm and the rear will be 16mm - typically a set can be had for less than $200, complete with bushings

Flash, I guess I'm not understanding why less body roll is bad. I've always been told it is good. I understand you have to make the whole car work together and it could be bad if the only thing your doing is putting on bigger sways...but I guess I'm just a little confused.

[flash968]

it's all about weight transfer and the timing thereof in the transitions of turns - if the bars are too stiff relative to the suspension, the car will skate like it's on marbles

in autocross this happens all the time - i constantly see guys over-barring cars, and ending up with both understeer and snap oversteer on the same car

typically in autocross i either disconnect the front bar, or go with a small one - the rear i set up to be barred stiff but sprung soft - but then, i don't use the bakes much either, and steer with the rear of the car a lot

this setup would be a mess on a road race course though, and not much fun in a canyon

setup is tricky stuff, and with a dual purpose car you have to make compromises - if it's dedicated car, you can tune much better - heck, we used to change gear ratios, depending on the course, just to get the right exit launch

[Laptop_geek]

Originally Posted by flash968

it's all about weight transfer and the timing thereof in the transitions of turns - if the bars are too stiff relative to the suspension, the car will skate like it's on marbles

in autocross this happens all the time - i constantly see guys over-barring cars, and ending up with both understeer and snap oversteer on the same car

typically in autocross i either disconnect the front bar, or go with a small one - the rear i set up to be barred stiff but sprung soft - but then, i don't use the bakes much either, and steer with the rear of the car a lot

this setup would be a mess on a road race course though, and not much fun in a canyon

setup is tricky stuff, and with a dual purpose car you have to make compromises - if it's dedicated car, you can tune much better - heck, we used to change gear ratios, depending on the course, just to get the right exit launch

Ahh, I see. Thanks for the clarification.