Stuck! Literally...

tstark · tstark's Garage

OK, I've been posting in my project thread but need some help.

I got the crank shaft seal off along with the o ring and oil sleeve.

Put the new seal on, lubed the crank shaft and oil sleeve and began sliding into place. Got it to a certain point, and it's stuck. Won't go in further or come out. I'm sure it's the tight fit between oil sleeve and seal.

Any advice on getting the sleeve pushed all the way in?

75ohm · 12-14-2013, 05:47 PM

Looks like you have a little further to go on the seal... and you need to likely run some scotch brite around the crank to get the rust off...

That being said, you need to twist the oil pump drive sleeve to get it to mesh with the internal gearing of the oil pump.

Good luck -- just did this yesterday myself.

75ohm · 12-14-2013, 05:48 PM

Don't forget the o-ring and THEN the spacer (washer)... don't ask.

MB968 · 12-14-2013, 08:33 PM

If the oil sleeve uses a woodruff key (half moon style) it could be possible that the top of the key isn't parallel to the od of the shaft. If this happens, or if the key starts to rotate in its keyway, it can cause issues sliding the oil sleeve in. But, I don't recall if the key used for the sleeve is this style or not.

Also, as mentioned above, I would first check to see that the teeth on the sleeve are meshed with the oil pump. If not, they may be hitting the oil pump teeth and keeping you from inserting it further.

Finally, any reason that you put the seal in first. Normal assembly procedure for machinery (and engines) would be to install the seal last. If you did this, it would make it easy to see if the teeth are properly aligned with the oil pump. And, you only slide the seal over areas of a mating part that are intended to be a seal surface (ground to the finish that won't damage the seal).

tstark · tstark's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by 75ohm

Looks like you have a little further to go on the seal... and you need to likely run some scotch brite around the crank to get the rust off...

That being said, you need to twist the oil pump drive sleeve to get it to mesh with the internal gearing of the oil pump.

Good luck -- just did this yesterday myself.

I'm thinking of pulling seal and starting over. Didn't like the way the seal went in. Not quite flush on top, about a 1/2 mm too deep. I'll order a new seal.

Will try the scotch brite.

Is it normal for the new sleeve to fit so tight on the shaft? Old one came off easily.

tstark · tstark's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by MB968

If the oil sleeve uses a woodruff key (half moon style) it could be possible that the top of the key isn't parallel to the od of the shaft. If this happens, or if the key starts to rotate in its keyway, it can cause issues sliding the oil sleeve in. But, I don't recall if the key used for the sleeve is this style or not.

Also, as mentioned above, I would first check to see that the teeth on the sleeve are meshed with the oil pump. If not, they may be hitting the oil pump teeth and keeping you from inserting it further.

Finally, any reason that you put the seal in first. Normal assembly procedure for machinery (and engines) would be to install the seal last. If you did this, it would make it easy to see if the teeth are properly aligned with the oil pump. And, you only slide the seal over areas of a mating part that are intended to be a seal surface (ground to the finish that won't damage the seal).

Procedures I read said to install seal first. May try it with sleeve first though.

Slam · 12-14-2013, 10:12 PM

Wrap tape around the sleeve to protect it and use a big pair of channel locks to wiggle it off the crank. I second polishing the crank nose - important step. I can't see the pic too well on this iPhone but your seal doesn't look quite square. You can set up the crank sprocket to draw the seal in straight with the crank bolt to get it started. I agree that the seal goes in before the sleeve; at least, that's how I've always done it. And oil everything up well on install - it can be a challenge getting the sleeve to mesh with the oil pump drive gear. You'll know when you've got it right 'cause the sleeve will sit almost flush with the seal.

tstark · tstark's Garage

Used a strip of rubber contact paper and pulled the sleeve off. Used a scotch brite sponge on the shaft. After several tries I got the sleeve in deeper. But it still doesn't look right--I should have taken a pic before pulling the seal and sleeve.

Is the sleeve in deep enough?

Slam · 12-15-2013, 04:19 PM

Looks good. You're there.

tstark · tstark's Garage

Quote:

Looks good. You're there.

Thanks!!

tstark · tstark's Garage

I was looking through my project pics and found this one. Comparing the last pic I posted in this thread to the pic prior to the crank re-seal (below) I noticed that the washer was a lot more flush to the old seal.

I googled for some more pics and the ones I found look a lot like my re-seal, with the sleeve out about the same distance.

Just double checking I got this right, cuz my before pic looks like the sleeve was in deeper.

944tothefloor · 12-16-2013, 08:12 PM

imho, that looks good to me. Its hard to say from my lazyboy chair, but if they feel planted, I think you are good to go.

Slam · 12-17-2013, 11:50 AM

As long as it's meshing with the oil pump, torquing the crank bolt will suffice to set it properly if you're in doubt.

CHICKS · 01:07 PM

Here is my drawing on how to press in the seal. Is your oil pump sleeve new? It will eat the new seal and leak if it has a grove. Your second pic looks fine. Don't forget the green o-ring, the washer, and 155ftlbs.

tstark · tstark's Garage

Thanks. I think I'm just being paranoid, being my first time. Will give it a go using the drawing and post results.

Ky914Newbie · 12-18-2013, 05:37 AM

Trying to determine when I had my seals on good enough was one of the most nerve racking parts of the job for me. The only thing that made me more nervous was first start. Take lots of pics and ask questions. That is a good plan and worked well for me.

simssj · simssj's Garage

Agreed; the first start after FOES rework is nerve-wracking!

When I did mine, I pulled the fuel pump relay and the coil wire and cranked and cranked and cranked until I had 5-bar on the oil pressure gauge. Then I illuminated each seal, looking for any weepage.

There was none, so I plugged the fuel pump back in, and the coil wire, and it started on the first pull.

No leaks!

(Of course, I do have an oil-cooler gasket leak that's driving me crazy; your thread about changing the oil cooler seals without pulling the headers has inspired me to take on this chore after the holidays!)

tstark · tstark's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by simssj

Agreed; the first start after FOES rework is nerve-wracking!

When I did mine, I pulled the fuel pump relay and the coil wire and cranked and cranked and cranked until I had 5-bar on the oil pressure gauge. Then I illuminated each seal, looking for any weepage.

There was none, so I plugged the fuel pump back in, and the coil wire, and it started on the first pull.

No leaks!

(Of course, I do have an oil-cooler gasket leak that's driving me crazy; your thread about changing the oil cooler seals without pulling the headers has inspired me to take on this chore after the holidays!)

You can definitely do the seals on the cooler without pulling the header, especially if you remove the PS pump. You'll have to configure sockets and extensions to remove the top 2 bolts. Re-installing those same bolts can be done from under the car if you have a buddy help guide the socket into place. If I can do it, anyone can. It just takes some patience. Good Luck!