best year 928 for moderately skilled mechanic

[gbgastowers]

Looking for a 928. If I plan on doing as much of the maintenance and repairs on the car as possible, what year car would be best for me. I am a 43 year old that has some light mechanical experience and am good at research. I know that the later you go the more kinks have been worked out and more refined, but it seems you have more complicated things that can give problems(ABS,32V,Air Bags, etc.). More bells and whistles = more stuff to malfunction. Thanks in advance. Gunar

[MPDano]

Did you read my 53 pages of my Project? Is this what you are looking to take on? What do you want to spend? Auto or 5 Speed? Color? Location of car?

[american-kiwi]

Hi gbgastowers
if you like to work on your cars, i would start with a OB 78-80 (old body)...they are a lot more simple to work on..the only real thing that will kick your butt is the CIS fuel system...once you get your head around this, on how it works...they are fun to work with...16V v 32V...T-belts are easy to do on the 16V..even if you mess up the timing you wont break anything...(unless its a euro).....just my 2c worth

[Danglerb]

The market is full of old 928's with decades of substandard PM, the trick is you don't have to buy a cheap problem car. It may be as few as 5% or less of the cars that are for sale, but a tiny few of really NICE cars are available from time to time.

Buying well, getting a nice car, far exceeds any model year advantages. That said, I stick with my suggestion of a US 1984 automatic as the cheapest and most reliable 928.

OTOH you really have to buy what you like, and the various configurations of 928 have very different personalities.

[XLR8928]

Originally Posted by Danglerb

The market is full of old 928's with decades of substandard PM, the trick is you don't have to buy a cheap problem car. It may be as few as 5% or less of the cars that are for sale, but a tiny few of really NICE cars are available from time to time.

Buying well, getting a nice car, far exceeds any model year advantages. That said, I stick with my suggestion of a US 1984 automatic as the cheapest and most reliable 928.

OTOH you really have to buy what you like, and the various configurations of 928 have very different personalities.

Hey Mike,
Dont forget to mention a service manual (not chiltons ) is an absolute nessicity. OBTW, that hood still is decorating the garage. Some day I'll install it and get the beast painted. However... It does kinda class up the place.
-K

[SolReaver]

16v auto to start. CIS can be troublesome if you don't have the proper gage set. you will need a garage, tools, time and money. Get the best car you can to start with. Most out there are "parts cars" at best. Look for paperwork and RECENT registration. lastly.... Get a runner! If it doesn't run and drive you can't check out the suspension and handling. Think of it as "momentum" a car at rest (for several years) tends to stay at rest and a running car tends to keep moving.

Have a "war chest" ready to go BEFORE you get the car or else you will be chipping away forever.

[JK McDonald]

The best model year for any moderate mechanic would be a 1966 Volkswagen bug. The one I drove wide open at 57 mph when Custer was a corporal always started, never broke and a full tilt tune-up could be completed in 45 minutes for $6.00 with a hammer, crescent wrench and a bent screwdriver.

Deciding which model 928 is for you can be a very involved decision and you should look over lots of input before diving into the deep end. For my two cents - I feel that the 1983 - 1984 models are a nice balance between looks, 928 development, relatively low complexity and great reliability. For the money here are my reasons :

1. The non interference 16 valve U.S. engine was at a developmental peak
2. Both the electronic ignition/FI systems are still reliable and trouble free
3. Nice Horse Power/torque curve - Almost bullet proof 4 speed automatic transmission
4. Basic disc brake system - many can be found without ABS
5. The electrical/AC system/heating controls are relatively basic
6. Aggressive stance and appearance with the S package and spoilers
7. Excellent range of available used parts with many pre/post model years interchangeable (With the exception of most power train parts)

For the best trouble free ownership of any 928 ALWAYS start off with a well serviced and documented vehicle. Follow this up with regularly scheduled maintenance and reasonable driving techniques (if there is such of a thing for a Porsche) and you will be a happy camper.

Hey Gunar : 928's are all great road cars - Here is a quick update that may help in your search for a potential 928. Keep an eye on ebay motors and Craigs List for an overview of what is on the market vs price. This is an example of a desirable 5 speed 1983 but with a questionable 77K miles and an unknown history. Currently the bid is just over $1,000 and may require anywhere from $3-5k (guess ?) just to make a nice looking, reliable driver out of it. The 928 odometer is often known to stop working around the 80K mark so the miles may not be accurate. As mentioned by many experienced owners, some "no history" cars can be a real hand full to be avoided.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1983-porsche-928_W0QQitemZ330414330170QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Car s_Trucks?hash=item4cee3a913a


Good Luck on your hunt, Michael

[JK McDonald]

gbgastowers - Also for an extended in-depth search of the best selection of the available cars don't hesitate to ask questions on the many individual 928 Porsche owner sites and members on the Pelican Parts and Rennlist. There is lots of friendly information out there.

Hey Danglerb - wow with the above mentioned retitled 83 model having 177K miles, interior/body work issues and no documented history - you're right, this would probably be more of a money sponge than the starting point for a project. Who ever did win the bid was probably looking for a parts car candidate.

Again - Good Luck, Michael

[Danglerb]

Originally Posted by JK McDonald

Porsche : 928 : eBay Motors (item 330414330170 end time Mar-22-10 08:27:58 PDT)
[/COLOR]

Good Luck on your hunt, Michael

Carfax in the listing shows 177k miles and abandoned and retitled, not saying some fun could not be had with it, but wow that car would suck up money like shamwow.

[gbgastowers]

$4,000 or more for bodywork and paint alone.

[SolReaver]

Hey it went for 1225. For a runner that is not too bad. Grab a parts car for the interior and just drive the darn thing. A 4.5 with a gutted interior is not my idea of a good starting point, however...It does give you a feel for what is out there. Mostly wrecks. It is sad but true that a lot of these vehicles just languish as owners don't have the aptitude or funds to properly maintain them.

Get familiar with the model. Find a 928 aficionado to look at cars with you, and begin the search. Be advised that it will take a while and you shouldn't be discouraged when you get on site and find the golden opportunity turns out to be a wreck with animals living under the hood. I looked at nearly 2 dozen gems before deciding on my present project 928. Be advised the restoration or refresh process that you will need to get into once you get your "precious" will take time and money. The further the car has been allowed to slide...the further you will have to go to bring it back.

Wait and save your money until you can get one with documents and a pedigree. in the long run spending more money actually saves you money in the long run. Go figure.

[MPDano]

Sheesh guys. I always hear about how a 4.5 is not the ideal 928. It's a V8 in a Small Car for *&^% Sakes. Is the 4.7 really that big of a jump in performance? I know it shows in Specs of a 50 HP jump, but is it really that big of a deal?

Sorry, but i need to defend all us 4.5 liter guys and gals

[SolReaver]

My bad Dano, Sorry if that came across as negative towards the OB or 4.5 crowd. It was not meant as such and I apologize for the misunderstanding. I was speaking more towards the interior than the engine, which, as you correctly pointed out, is perfectly good and yes, there are a lot of good, running 4.5s out there that will continue to serve there owners very well. ANY good 16v was my previous suggestion and I hold with it. This includes the 4.5 of course.

Further, IMHO, I would take a RUNNING 4.5 OVER a 32v that has eaten itself some time in the past for reasons that should be obvious to fellow enthusiasts. The only caution I can give for the 4.5 is that I have seen a few with snapped cams, which is not such a bid deal as they can usually be brought back if the rest of car is worth the effort.

Additionally, 4.5s are plentiful and (relatively) inexpensive when it comes to parts, which can really help when push comes to shove. I am not a CIS fan, but have muddled through successfully so far and expect that an individual with "reasonable" mechanical aptitude could do the same if necessary.

In summation, we are all in this together and any distinctions between 928 owners based upon what Particular model they have or prefer is just silly.

[MPDano]

No worries. Not really taken in a bad way. I just wanted to put it out there that a V8 in a small car is kick a$$! Including the Red Headed Step Child 4.5

[XLR8928]

Originally Posted by MPDano

Sheesh guys. I always hear about how a 4.5 is not the ideal 928. It's a V8 in a Small Car for *&^% Sakes. Is the 4.7 really that big of a jump in performance? I know it shows in Specs of a 50 HP jump, but is it really that big of a deal?

Sorry, but i need to defend all us 4.5 liter guys and gals

I couldn't have said it better!
-K

[Danglerb]

I think I can count on one hand the number of really nice OB's that have been sold in the last 3 years and still have a few spare fingers. Most of the time its cheaper, over say 5 years of ownership, to buy a nicer 928, even if that means paying the premium a newer model carries with it.

4.5 vs 5.0 is close to 100 hp and a load of mid range torque from the 4v and tuned intake. Difference isn't slight, its never be happy again after driving one different.

[MPDano]

Originally Posted by Danglerb

I think I can count on one hand the number of really nice OB's that have been sold in the last 3 years and still have a few spare fingers. Most of the time its cheaper, over say 5 years of ownership, to buy a nicer 928, even if that means paying the premium a newer model carries with it.

4.5 vs 5.0 is close to 100 hp and a load of mid range torque from the 4v and tuned intake. Difference isn't slight, its never be happy again after driving one different.

Mike, do you own a 32V? Not counting your FrankenPorsche

How about an answer on the 4.5 vs 4.7?

[JK McDonald]

Early on - while trying to tweak an engine or two with some parts swaps, I had attempted to sort out and chart the available 928 HP numbers by year but it seemed there were no two spec sheets that agreed on all the transition points. My final checkerboard of data simply turned into a mess because the factory numbers were roughly plotted by world market, model, year, engine, compression, fuel/ignition control, transmission type, final differential ratios and production month. In some years one spec sheet also threw into the mix something called a “special order application” for super rich customers in countries like Saudi Arabia and Bahrain. The U.S. HP numbers below may be off a little -

I thought the life of the 4.5 Liter 16 valve began back in the 1978 and ran up to 1982 with about 230 HP using the Bosch CIS fuel injection (some late models came with an early L-Jetronic fuel injection). The 4.7 Liter 16 valve engine ran from 1983 – 1984 with 240 HP using the electronically controlled L-Jetronic fuel injection (some with early LH-Jetronic). The 5 Liter 32 valve engine was available from 1985 – 1991 initially using a modified LH-Jetronic which quickly changed to Bosch Motronic for about 300 – 330 HP. The 5.3 Liter 32 valve engine ended the lineup from 1992 – 1995 with 350 HP and Bosch Motronic fuel injection. Of course these numbers do not include the hair on fire nitrous, twin turbo, rocket fueled afterburner kits that are available for owners who can’t quite get enough HP under their butts…….

Please correct any discrepancy you notice….

Thanks Michael

[Danglerb]

I've bought 3 85/86 engines, picking another up this week, but so far zero of them in a car. US 83 is plain 4.7, and 85 Euro is 4.7 S.

4.5 vs 4.7 vs 5.0, cubes are cubes, but main impact is the bore and limitations on the heads and valve sizes you can use. Euro S heads are shrouded, valve too close to the side of the cylinder for full flow, even with the 97.5mm bore of the 4.7L block. I don't think S heads are practical to use with a 4.5, and the Euro S heads are the MAIN cheap path to power. With 104mm a slightly larger valve might even be possible.

I would not be doing this if I wasn't pretty sure the incremental HP would not be more than incremental fun.

[XLR8928]

Originally Posted by Danglerb

I've bought 3 85/86 engines, picking another up this week, but so far zero of them in a car. US 83 is plain 4.7, and 85 Euro is 4.7 S.

4.5 vs 4.7 vs 5.0, cubes are cubes, but main impact is the bore and limitations on the heads and valve sizes you can use. Euro S heads are shrouded, valve too close to the side of the cylinder for full flow, even with the 97.5mm bore of the 4.7L block. I don't think S heads are practical to use with a 4.5, and the Euro S heads are the MAIN cheap path to power. With 104mm a slightly larger valve might even be possible.

I would not be doing this if I wasn't pretty sure the incremental HP would not be more than incremental fun.

Mike,
I thought you were collecting all of those euro heads to make a throne with.
-K