impact bubble starts to cool?

[Rick Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

I'd say closer to $25k

Yes. Any aircooled 911 that runs and doesn't have rust holes or ripped seats trades with a 2 handle.

[1979-930]

Originally Posted by RandyMc

Great Idea! Any suggestions on wheels and tires, I run Pilot Sport 4S on my 17 911.



They are amazing tire btw, but I am thinking you are meaning a more vintage looking tire correct?



Thanks

Yep. What JMS posted. Search Flyn-Hawn in the 911 Tech forum. He did a blue backdate with the wheels and tires I’m thinking of.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Matt Monson]

15’s only look good with a bit of a gumball profile. Put some little 45 aspect ratio rubber bands on and it looks weird.

[speednme1]

Originally Posted by JMS935

Derrick is probably recommending one of these in the TB lineup...

https://classic.michelin.com/en/Competition-Classic-Tyre-range/TB5-R-and-F

https://classic.michelin.com/en/Competition-Classic-Tyre-range/TB-15

I just bought a set of TB15's..it's crazy how light they are

[JMS935]

These tires are a good option as well in the 15” classic rally look...

https://www.pirelli.com/tyres/en-ww/motorsport/all-tyres/products-sheet/p7-corsa-classic

[QueWhy]

Originally Posted by speednme1

Bottom line, what decides the worth of a car is having a buyer who’s willing to pay the asking price. Lots of cars are not worth their asking price but somehow seem to get it. A stock run of the mill SC with 200k miles will probably be worth $18-23k...add all the stuff that was done to the car that sold and you may be over the sale price. A glass out half way decent paint job will be $8k or more...depending on your demographics. Plenty of internet sales support my claim....it’s not like I’m pulling this out of my arse. Many may shake their heads but that is the reality.

Any SC that runs and has a clean title is going to be above your estimate. At $18-23k it wouldn’t last an hour, the value of its parts surpasses 20k. Rollers are 8-10k and 3.0l engine are 8-10k, doesn’t take much to get into the mid 20’s.

[speednme1]

Originally Posted by QueWhy

Any SC that runs and has a clean title is going to be above your estimate. At $18-23k it wouldn’t last an hour, the value of its parts surpasses 20k. Rollers are 8-10k and 3.0l engine are 8-10k, doesn’t take much to get into the mid 20’s.

I agree with you, my estimate was on the low side. So your comment reiterates my estimate on the SC that was sold. If a decent SC sells for mid 20's or above then it would not take much more to be above the mid 40's once you start adding full paint jobs, suspension, wheels, full interiors etc..etc..

I understand that many can't seem to wrap their head around some of these sale prices. I get it, I was one of those people. My first 930 was $43k (which I thought I overpaid) with all the goodies. Heck my first 85 911 was $15k back in 95. Problem is times have changed and we must accept that. Although prices have cooled somewhat, waiting for prices to come back to pre 2011-2012 values may not happen.

I had a 66 Alfa Giulia Sprint Gt that I paid $39k for. The quality and build of the Porsche is much better. I had the Alfa for a year and sold it very well (wish I had kept it though). It's not just Porsche's with the rising value. Many classic cars are finally getting their recognition.

[voitureltd]

Speaking of BAT prices vs the current market falling apart, the 76 Kremer was a NS for far less on BAT than @ the RM Sotheby Museum this past week sale where it got $173K. So bat prices are not the holy grail of values as some think. Just another price point to consider. Some at different auctions like the Kremer and other examples of special Porsches, as in this case, just need a different exposure to a wider and deeper pocketed audience. Also buying in person vs from photos can make the difference especially with a unusual offering, like true concours, special equipment/ builder like Kremer, etc. I remember Mecum sold a under 8K mile Kremer that had undisputable documentation for $400K. albeit 2 years ago. The 88 very nice red 930 about to close on BAT has a long way to go from the around $160K now, or another RNM great Porsche.

[QueWhy]

Originally Posted by speednme1

I agree with you, my estimate was on the low side. So your comment reiterates my estimate on the SC that was sold. If a decent SC sells for mid 20's or above then it would not take much more to be above the mid 40's once you start adding full paint jobs, suspension, wheels, full interiors etc..etc..

I understand that many can't seem to wrap their head around some of these sale prices. I get it, I was one of those people. My first 930 was $43k (which I thought I overpaid) with all the goodies. Heck my first 85 911 was $15k back in 95. Problem is times have changed and we must accept that. Although prices have cooled somewhat, waiting for prices to come back to pre 2011-2012 values may not happen.

I had a 66 Alfa Giulia Sprint Gt that I paid $39k for. The quality and build of the Porsche is much better. I had the Alfa for a year and sold it very well (wish I had kept it though). It's not just Porsche's with the rising value. Many classic cars are finally getting their recognition.

The spread between a busted high mile SC and the nicest one in the world is pretty tight. You can’t get a running driving coupe for under $25k but a cherry all original is only $50ish. The car in question was nothing special. A respray, refinished wheels, supposed top end refresh, recovered seats and dash, that’s about it for close to the top of the market price.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by QueWhy

The spread between a busted high mile SC and the nicest one in the world is pretty tight. You can’t get a running driving coupe for under $25k but a cherry all original is only $50ish. The car in question was nothing special. A respray, refinished wheels, supposed top end refresh, recovered seats and dash, that’s about it for close to the top of the market price.

The car you describe isn’t the top of the market. You describe a reconditioned car. Top of the market is the all original cars and they are a good 50% more expensive, or more.

[speednme1]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

The car you describe isn’t the top of the market. You describe a reconditioned car. Top of the market is the all original cars and they are a good 50% more expensive, or more.

Exactly my point

[QueWhy]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

The car you describe isn’t the top of the market. You describe a reconditioned car. Top of the market is the all original cars and they are a good 50% more expensive, or more.

50% more expensive than a $47k call it $50k with fees SC? I don’t look at SC listings often but I don’t recall any selling for $75,000+

[Rick Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by QueWhy

50% more expensive than a $47k call it $50k with fees SC? I don’t look at SC listings often but I don’t recall any selling for $75,000+

You wouldn't see them selling . Those cars change hands quietly. A couple of years ago Sloan had a 4k mile SC, museum quality. They were asking $125k. Asking isn't getting but obviously a car like that wouldn't sell for much less than six digits.

Shortly before I bought my middie I went to see a 1974 911s coupe no sunroof. Allegedly two owner and original paint, allegedly 60k miles but zero records from new and TMU. Very sweet beautiful car but clearly not museum or even concours quality.

The guy was asking $60k, I was about to make an offer in the 50s but he cut me off mid sentence and said he had another buyer ready to pay full price, sight unseen, no ppi. So I said I'd pass and the guy was 100% cool with it so no reason for me to doubt he did in fact sell that very nice but highly imperfect car for $60k.

[RandyMc]

Originally Posted by voitureltd

Speaking of BAT prices vs the current market falling apart, the 76 Kremer was a NS for far less on BAT than @ the RM Sotheby Museum this past week sale where it got $173K. So bat prices are not the holy grail of values as some think. Just another price point to consider. Some at different auctions like the Kremer and other examples of special Porsches, as in this case, just need a different exposure to a wider and deeper pocketed audience. Also buying in person vs from photos can make the difference especially with a unusual offering, like true concours, special equipment/ builder like Kremer, etc. I remember Mecum sold a under 8K mile Kremer that had undisputable documentation for $400K. albeit 2 years ago. The 88 very nice red 930 about to close on BAT has a long way to go from the around $160K now, or another RNM great Porsche.

That Kremer that sold for 173 belonged to a friend of mine, my other friend worked on it in my shop, it was a really wild looking car in person.

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by RandyMc

That Kremer that sold for 173 belonged to a friend of mine, my other friend worked on it in my shop, it was a really wild looking car in person.

The ice green metallic one? Is that what it sold for this weekend? Love that car

[voitureltd]

Originally Posted by RandyMc

That Kremer that sold for 173 belonged to a friend of mine, my other friend worked on it in my shop, it was a really wild looking car in person.

I talked to him shortly after he got it. Was seeking some info as I had a Kremer he had heard about. I did inquire about his intention of keeping it however he wanted to keep it for awhile. Too bad for BAT bidders, they missed a great one when he offered it there. The Kremer I have was built by them for M. Andretti so of course it is red. Ice Green is such a great vintage color on a early Porsche. Oh well.

[voitureltd]

Originally Posted by nathanbs

The ice green metallic one? Is that what it sold for this weekend? Love that car

Yes. Just a better auction for that type of Porsche.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by Rick Brooklyn

You wouldn't see them selling . Those cars change hands quietly. A couple of years ago Sloan had a 4k mile SC, museum quality. They were asking $125k. Asking isn't getting but obviously a car like that wouldn't sell for much less than six digits.

Shortly before I bought my middie I went to see a 1974 911s coupe no sunroof. Allegedly two owner and original paint, allegedly 60k miles but zero records from new and TMU. Very sweet beautiful car but clearly not museum or even concours quality.

The guy was asking $60k, I was about to make an offer in the 50s but he cut me off mid sentence and said he had another buyer ready to pay full price, sight unseen, no ppi. So I said I'd pass and the guy was 100% cool with it so no reason for me to doubt he did in fact sell that very nice but highly imperfect car for $60k.

Yep. I know of one that sold quietly for $72k. The best of the best don’t get sold on EBay or BaT. We don’t generally see them except for when one shows up at Amelia or Pebble Beach, etc.

[SalParadise]

Originally Posted by voitureltd

Speaking of BAT prices vs the current market falling apart, the 76 Kremer was a NS for far less on BAT than @ the RM Sotheby Museum this past week sale where it got $173K. So bat prices are not the holy grail of values as some think. Just another price point to consider. Some at different auctions like the Kremer and other examples of special Porsches, as in this case, just need a different exposure to a wider and deeper pocketed audience. Also buying in person vs from photos can make the difference especially with a unusual offering, like true concours, special equipment/ builder like Kremer, etc. I remember Mecum sold a under 8K mile Kremer that had undisputable documentation for $400K. albeit 2 years ago. The 88 very nice red 930 about to close on BAT has a long way to go from the around $160K now, or another RNM great Porsche.

This does not surprise at all. People with taste and dignity like to buy special cars at special venues - not by just looking at several 2-dimensional photographs on an internet site and being distracted by nobodys who know nothing about what's offered (ie. in person with sight, touch, and smell).

Place of purchase on high-end and special cars absolutely plays into this. That's why it continues to baffle me that people put so much trust and money into a four-paragraph write-up and glossy photographs. Oh well...

[JMS935]

Originally Posted by voitureltd

Yes. Just a better auction for that type of Porsche.

Mainly because there's no push back from an auction setting like that in terms of it's authenticity. Many take what's written in the auction catalog as the holy grail, which is what this car needed because it doesn't have the documentation in terms of its provenance. So they say it's an original Kremer and thus bid on like an original Kremer. That was big money for it IMO...with no real documentation, no real proof.