Questionable Practices at Bring A Trailer ( BAT )

[Cobalt]

Originally Posted by SalParadise

Auctions are for suckers and clowns.


Auctions are for people who don't know a thing about classic cars - nor do they care, because they like the thrill of it - like gambling and gaining their precious moments of glory.

I agree about auctions and IMO BaT is a joke for all but a few. I do find it entertaining and there are some serious clueless characters that never cease to amaze.

I have witnessed first hand two low mile grade A 993TT's sell for far less than they should due to inane comments and BaT pushing for a low reserve. Interestingly they both did not meet reserve but BaT stepped up and covered the difference. Yet there are cars that aren't remotely worth their reserve they let slide and the sellers are clearly being evasive and dishonest with ads BaT shouldn't even be considering posting.

[McLovin]

I agree with much of what's been posted. Definitely shady stuff going on (plants, sock puppets, shill bids, etc.). There is nothing in their system to try and prevent that, I'm not sure they even want to.

Two things I've said before and will say again:

1. Someone pointed out most posters there are cheerleaders. There's a good reason for that. They censor out many legit negative posts! I know that for a fact. On the other hand, it appears no matter how wrong or absurd a positive post is, it'll never get censored. So, they are stacking the deck and secretly manipulating bidders.

2. They are doing a huge cash grab with 200+ auctions going at once, but it is hurting them. Bidding and prices are down. I glanced at the results for today, for example, and it looks like the majority of auction ended RNM. That's a problem. It causes a loss of both buyers and sellers (and spectators).

They seem to be aware of the problem,I noticed in unsuccessful auctions they don't call it "reserve not met" anymore, but instead the more euphemistic "bid to $ X" to downplay a yet another RNM auction.

[speednme1]

Originally Posted by SalParadise

Auctions are for suckers and clowns.

If you're a real man you have connections in the car world and buy the car before it ever hits the market. If you are a real man, but lack in funds, you can hit Craigslist or something like the Bargain News - and get vicious. If you are a real man, and lack complete social grace or pocket change for a paper, then hit the back roads and knock on doors when you see something interesting out back or in the garage.

Auctions are for people who don't know a thing about classic cars - nor do they care, because they like the thrill of it - like gambling and gaining their precious moments of glory.

That may certainly be your opinion, but what does an auction have to do with being a real man? Does a real man write a check instead of using a credit card? Does a real man balance his checkbook instead of using a laptop and checking his account on line? Does a real man use single ply instead of 2 ply?..lol...

Different strokes for different folks, I don't think someone's manhood has anything to do with his or her decision. It's just the sign of the times Mr. Dinosaur

[msort81]

[QUOTE=McLovin;10274335]I agree with much of what's been posted. Definitely shady stuff going on (plants, sock puppets, shill bids, etc.). There is nothing in their system to try and prevent that, I'm not sure they even want to.


They used to be in the business of collating cool cars from source and enthusiast driven traffic. Thats the real genius of BAT. They built a loyal and engaged following, all kinds of car people contributed so the site became very credible to a sector of the market. Then they added the auctions.

They are smart because the site is not covered in advertising, does not appear greedy, & there are still some links to non BAT auction cars, not many, but enough to keep the belief.
Theoretically Pelican, could do the same thing for the brands it carries parts for, because it has the following. That's the thing you can't buy.

[Cobalt]

I helped present several cars at the Amelia concours this year and stopped by the auctions. I watched cars that looked great to most but were clearly not as represented. They were bid up to multiples of market value and will take a long time for the market to catch up if ever. 1600 mile cars with full resprays and mismatched parts. Prior S title cars sold with clean titles etc. Clear deception but it is up to the buyer to know what they are bidding on. It is amazing how few actually have a clue or just in denial about the cars they buy. BaT seems to take it to a new level lately and IMO went from being a decent tool to actual hurting the markets.

[JMS935]

Originally Posted by McLovin

They censor out many legit negative posts! I know that for a fact. On the other hand, it appears no matter how wrong or absurd a positive post is, it'll never get censored. So, they are stacking the deck and secretly manipulating bidders.

For those that don’t believe that censorship is going on at BaT, here you go...

This just happened to my latest post (non-post) late last night, just a few hours ago. I’m on their ‘watchlist’ now since I’m willing to speak my mind, I.E. not just be a robotic BaT cheerleader. And since I know this now I actually toned down this comment, yet they still scrubbed it from the auction. If I could’ve freely spoke my mind, I wouldn’t have sanitized it to get past the freedom of speech monitors, yet it still failed to get posted.

Here is the auction...

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1988-porsche-911-turbo-930-2/

Here is a screen shot of my post I took (probably only viewable to me at that time) since I know they scrub them if I’m not blindly praising a car...



Note that it doesn’t even show as a post that was then flagged as not constructive - it was totally erased from the auction altogether. This platform is a total joke as far as I’m concerned, I’d never buy a car there. If you wonder why nobody has commented on something like this, it’s because many of us are getting scrubbed from the auction.

[1979-930]

It is odd that someone this particular did not save the window sticker. But the rest of the paperwork is there. So I'll agree the seat option does not add up.
The factory muffler was swapped out by the original owner. I'll assume for a louder or sporty muffler. So someone that wants the extra sound may have also wanted the sport seats the car did not come with and added those too.
The new owner does not want the buyers to know and has disposed of the window sticker.
I'm just assuming this because of the muffler swap and the detailed paperwork minus the window sticker.
Anyone else that knows a military pilot also knows that he saved the window sticker.


I will add the Porsche of Atlanta bent him over good on the service work.
R&R Clutch $1,970.00 labor
Then $930.00 labor to service it
Then $387.00 labor to remove the aftermarket muffler and install the original muffler. The engine is out... That took 3+ hrs
Then $310.00 labor to change the decklid struts with the engine out? That's a 15 min job.
Crooks!

And I cannot stand reading the comments at BAT auctions. The goof balls with their Widowmaker comments and stories annoy me. Theses cars are a joke compared to modern power.
Anyone who thinks they are a handful in stock form needs to stick to driving their Prius.

[JMS935]

Originally Posted by 1979-930

It is odd that someone this particular did not save the window sticker. But the rest of the paperwork is there. So I'll agree the seat option does not add up.
The factory muffler was swapped out by the original owner. I'll assume for a louder or sporty muffler. So someone that wants the extra sound may have also wanted the sport seats the car did not come with and added those too.
The new owner does not want the buyers to know and has disposed of the window sticker.
I'm just assuming this because of the muffler swap and the detailed paperwork minus the window sticker.
Anyone else that knows a military pilot also knows that he saved the window sticker.

That was the point I was trying to make in the other thread about this car, yet everyone seemed to buy into the seller’s BS and just chalked it up to COA issues. Huh, looks like I was right after all. Surprisingly everyone gives this guy a pass and believes him simply because it’s a 6k mile car, if it were 60k miles the entire BaT community would be calling him out on it.

The most baffling part of that seat issue is that the seller has potentially made a mountain out of a molehill. Nobody would give a sh|t if the seats have been swapped out, it doesn’t affect value at all as far as I’m concerned since the stock seats can be bought for very little money, while the seats installed are a premium. Instead, he now risks sabotaging his own auction for literally nothing if he’s been caught in a lie, which it sure looks like he has.

My bet...those ‘notes’ in the service book that were just posted in the image gallery were written by the seller after reading CVLC’s post about them just yesterday. Why didn’t he just handwrite in the two sport seat options on the COA as well while he was at it!

The car is supreme, the seller however, seems shady.

[Matt Monson]

What a joke.

[SalParadise]

This seller comment is quite priceless:


Terryborcheller (The Seller) 12

#HMW original owner was a pilot, probably from somewhere within the aviation world

Good to know that if you're a pilot you're somewhere within the aviation world.

[Matt Monson]

It wouldn't surprise me if who the seller is is influencing how the BaT boys treat him and his auction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Borcheller

[JMS935]

Originally Posted by SalParadise

This seller comment is quite priceless:


Terryborcheller (The Seller) 12

#HMW original owner was a pilot, probably from somewhere within the aviation world

Good to know that if you're a pilot you're somewhere within the aviation world.

So he’s a liar as well as being completely obtuse.

[specialtyoneinc]

Originally Posted by JMS935

For those that don’t believe that censorship is going on at BaT, here you go...

This just happened to my latest post (non-post) late last night, just a few hours ago. I’m on their ‘watchlist’ now since I’m willing to speak my mind, I.E. not just be a robotic BaT cheerleader. And since I know this now I actually toned down this comment, yet they still scrubbed it from the auction. If I could’ve freely spoke my mind, I wouldn’t have sanitized it to get past the freedom of speech monitors, yet it still failed to get posted.

Here is the auction...

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1988-porsche-911-turbo-930-2/

Here is a screen shot of my post I took (probably only viewable to me at that time) since I know they scrub them if I’m not blindly praising a car...



Note that it doesn’t even show as a post that was then flagged as not constructive - it was totally erased from the auction altogether. This platform is a total joke as far as I’m concerned, I’d never buy a car there. If you wonder why nobody has commented on something like this, it’s because many of us are getting scrubbed from the auction.

Somethings fishy going on with that option sticker. Handwritten is a joke. RNM is my guess.

[trader220]

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2008-porsche-911-carrera-6/#comments


I guess seller posting about all the calls, emails and people stopping by, weren't enough to drive the price up enough?

This car sold at Manheim PA in October for $42,500 plus fees. Then he had trucking to TX and whatever he put into the car, supposed "paint correction" and some other work.

I didn't think it had a chance of going to mid $40's on BAT. Water cooled cars typically don't do over retail on Bat. Of course there are a few exceptions.

[Rick Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by msort81

This is one of the sellers that makes me laugh:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2008-porsche-911-carrera-6/#comments

Funny how such a stock looking 997 looks dated to me now. The way the height is set, the wheel size, the styling. Back in the noughties i thought this was a stunningly good looking car.

I feel completely the opposite. When I look at a 992 I cringe at what kind of dadmobile luxobarge the 911 has become, and the goofy monster jam 21" rear wheels are the part I hate the most.

[SalParadise]

Originally Posted by Rick Brooklyn

and the goofy monster jam 21" rear wheels are the part I hate the most.

I agree. Goofy is being kind. It's like a rolling joke show. I did a double take when I first saw one and thought it wasn't for real.

[Matt Monson]

997 is the last 911 looking Carrera. Stylistically I have zero interest in the current crop of cars outside the factory racers.

[MichaelB]

I watched some BaT scrubbing on the recent 1976 930 sale. The seller (whom I casually know) was active the last several minutes of the auction. So ~ I was watching (and still contributing) with interest. Anyhow while the bids started to roll in at the end the seller (BeardBros) would try to interject to let people know that the bids were close to the reserve. He would post "not too much further" and it would pop up as written - for about five seconds... Then poof the whole post was gone... About another bid or two later the seller would attempt to post again "not too much further!" and then in about one second poof it too was gone. Right before my eyes.

I dunno if they powers at be were helping or what, but they were scrubbing for sure. And obviously without the sellers consent.

Did it help the sale? Who knows. It sold right on target from what I saw of the car in person. I guess its their playground and they can do what they like.

[Rick Brooklyn]

When they list your car BaT sends you an email with a big letter warning saying do not disclose the reserve, it's bad for the auction. So I guess it makes sense that they censor the reserve disclosing comments.

[JMS935]

Originally Posted by JMS935

My bet...those ‘notes’ in the service book that were just posted in the image gallery were written by the seller after reading CVLC’s post about them just yesterday. Why didn’t he just handwrite in the two sport seat options on the COA as well while he was at it!

The car is supreme, the seller however, seems shady.

It looks like I called that auction and seller right after all, the auction has gone off the rails, just like I suspected...all due to this sport seat issue the seller brought on himself.

The window sticker has just been added to the auction - THERE ARE NO SPORT SEATS ON IT, so my bet was dead right. The handwritten option codes in the service manual are bunk, and definitely written during the auction, but before posting the window sticker. What a mess this seller has made out of something so minor.

I hate to say it, but I couldn’t have been more accurate on this one. It’s unfortunate I called the mountain out of a molehill too, hopefully the seller can still get it sold now after tanking his own auction with his factory optioned sport seats fib.