Recession sink values????

[KNS]

I picked up my ‘84 Carrera in 2008 (right when the recession hit) for $12,000. It was amazing how many Porsches had been put up for sale.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by KNS

I picked up my ‘84 Carrera in 2008 (right when the recession hit) for $12,000. It was amazing how many Porsches had been put up for sale.

I bought my 1987 Turbo in 2006 for almost exactly double that - I still can't believe what they were selling for a couple of years ago, and are now (still seems utterly ludicrous to me).

[nathanbs]

See but to me the current prices seem very reasonable(except engine building lol) and everything below them and above them are also expensive so it’s not an oddity. Anyone checked the prices on air-cooled vw’s lately? Early to mid 90’s Japanese cars?

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by roblav

It's all opinion here, but I predict lower prices over the next three years.

Honestly if you are right it’s great news as I’m sick, real sick and that just means my medicine will be cheaper. I’ll gladly admit I was wrong and well knees, you’ll have to work that out with him.

[rxtrom]

It is as simple as supply and demand coupled with the economy and a nostalgia for past productions and cultural icons. People do not have enough material options to spend their money on so they will try and resurrect the past be it vinyl records, comics, or "antique" analog cars. It will take more than another recession to bring the prices down, the fad will have to wear off too.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by nathanbs

See but to me the current prices seem very reasonable(except engine building lol) and everything below them and above them are also expensive so it’s not an oddity. Anyone checked the prices on air-cooled vw’s lately? Early to mid 90’s Japanese cars?

I miswrote in my post above; I thought the 2 in KNS's post was a 7 (aka - I paid about $33K for mine).

Butt regardless, probably the main reason I think current pricing is absurd is because I could not buy a 930 for what they currently sell for - not even close (aka - I am a self employed, blue collar earner, by choice, and am not flush with cash ). Maybe that means I'm bitter (not bitter, like the hideous Porsche color, Bitter Chocolate, but the other kind of bitter ).

PS - I've not checked the prices of those cars you mentioned as I consider them foo foo mobiles, and not worthy of my time!

Originally Posted by nathanbs

Honestly if you are right it’s great news as I’m sick, real sick and that just means my medecine will be cheaper. I’ll gladly admit I was wrong and well knees, you’ll have to work that out with him.

Your level of suck is biggly, Bro, yuuuuuggggeee even!!!

[NYNick]

I'm mean seriously, another speculative value thread?

[Mike964_61]

I believe the aircooled market is cooling. How much will it cool? Who knows at this point. For me and I am sure many of you hope it goes iced cold. We all can buy more of them. I would be ok if my car was worth half of what it is and all the other cars I want price tag cut in half. I certainly would be able to afford a lot more of them.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by nathanbs

See but to me the current prices seem very reasonable(except engine building lol) and everything below them and above them are also expensive so it’s not an oddity. Anyone checked the prices on air-cooled vw’s lately? Early to mid 90’s Japanese cars?

And someone in that engine thread slammed your $30k paint and body number. Seems it’s all overpriced. Haha.

[robertmark]

Watch the auctions this weekend. You will see a lot of the same bidders buying many different brands of European cars. Probably a bit of greater fool theory going on imo.

I bought my 89 speedster in 1999 for exactly $50k when nobody gave a damn. I bought it because it is stunning to look at, not to mention drive. They were instant collectibles in 89. They stickered in the upper 60,s to low 70's. Shortly after being released they were selling in the $100's, only to fall back again.

In 1973 Porsche produced over 1500 rs's in sport and touring models. That's a lot of cars. Why should they sell for a million bucks? Why should the swb cars from the earliest years be selling for $200K?? They made tons of them. Now the 550 spyders, I get that!!!

I smell speculators!!!!!

[Rick Brooklyn]

Originally Posted by robertmark

Why should the swb cars from the earliest years be selling for $200K?? They made tons of them.

And out of those "tons of them", after more than 50 years, how many were crashed and scrapped? How many left to rot away in fields? How many devoured by rust? How many turned into sheepers with grotesque forward-date modifications or otherwise defiled?

You make it sound like there are several thousands of perfectly nice SWB cars out there, which clearly isn't the case.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by Rick Brooklyn

And out of those "tons of them", after more than 50 years, how many were crashed and scrapped? How many left to rot away in fields? How many devoured by rust? How many turned into sheepers with grotesque forward-date modifications or otherwise defiled?

You make it sound like there are several thousands of perfectly nice SWB cars out there, which clearly isn't the case.

Exactly. If there were my perfectly nice 912 wouldn’t have been killed and cut up as a steel donor for a ‘65 911 restoration.

[Matt Monson]

There were 81k longnose 911s made ‘64-73. For comparisons Ford was making around 1/4 million Mustangs a year during those same years.

[JMS935]

Originally Posted by robertmark

Watch the auctions this weekend. You will see a lot of the same bidders buying many different brands of European cars. Probably a bit of greater fool theory going on imo.

I bought my 89 speedster in 1999 for exactly $50k when nobody gave a damn. I bought it because it is stunning to look at, not to mention drive. They were instant collectibles in 89. They stickered in the upper 60,s to low 70's. Shortly after being released they were selling in the $100's, only to fall back again.

In 1973 Porsche produced over 1500 rs's in sport and touring models. That's a lot of cars. Why should they sell for a million bucks? Why should the swb cars from the earliest years be selling for $200K?? They made tons of them. Now the 550 spyders, I get that!!!

I smell speculators!!!!!

You’re right, there are lots of speculators pushing (or at least hoping to push) the market higher. Many of the high water mark sales can be found shortly afterwards for sale by another dealer at a much higher price. There is tons of speculation in this market, and with speculation comes price fluctuation as well. So of course if there’s a recession it’ll hit the Porsche air cooled collector car market too, we’re not immune to a correction. While it may not be as fluid as watching the stock market drop, as you can see that in the mark to market on a daily basis, prices will fall here as well. It’s just not as easy to panic and hit the sell button on your 911, which is normally a good thing, that way you don’t end up panic selling your car collection.

[SalParadise]

Let me tell you a story about the late '80s classic car gold rush.

I was 17 working a a Ferrari place in Connecticut, doing odd jobs after highschool. We are talking 1987,1988, part of 1989. It was booming - bigtime.

A family friend who owned several Ferraris (two 308s, a Testarossa, and a BB) had an investor, speculator or what have you walk into his barn in Westport and offered him $120K for the mint 308, $250K for his Testarossa, and $365K for his very mint BB (appropriate money for a car that's a 365 model). He took the money, $735K. His profit was probably $425K.

I was completely flummoxed. I asked him, "Why did you sell?" As I said, I was 17 and I was wide-eyed and thought the sky was the limit. He replied, "Now I can buy that beach house I always wanted, and in six years I can buy the cars back for what I originally bought them for after owning a beach house free and clear for six years."

I thought to myself, yeah, whatever, the cars are gone and they are going to keep going. Enzo is dead. They aren't making anymore. I was 17 and had little world experience. Fast forward six or seven years, he did in fact buy all the cars back - and one was actually one of his old cars. The TR he bought for $75K, the BB for $88K, and the 308 - get this - for $26K.

He was out the cars for those years but he bought a beach house on the Connecticut coast and bought the cars back for less than he paid in the mid-to-early 80s.

I often think of this story and wished I had a bunch of desirable cars to sell.

And oh, the reverse of this is a 250 GTO my boss sold for $89K in 1979 that he thought would be the highest they would ever go. So it goes both ways, but some cars are much more special than others.

[robertmark]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

There were 81k longnose 911s made ‘64-73. For comparisons Ford was making around 1/4 million Mustangs a year during those same years.

There were over 100,000 long nose cars produced. And yes, thousands of them still do exist. Excellent point bringing the Ford Mustang into play. Have you seen what some of those sell for at the big auction houses? I am not referring to the Shelbys.

Great story Sal

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

And someone in that engine thread slammed your $30k paint and body number. Seems it’s all overpriced. Haha.

Lol I was hoping someone wouldn’t call me out on that lol

[Matt Monson]

The late 80s were a crazy time. In 1988 I was working as a predelivery detailer (also 17) for an auto broker. The owners drove a Testarossa and a 930 slopenose cabriolet, respectively. I remember one afternoon a deal went down. They bought the rights to an early 1990s production slot for an F40. He paid $750k for it and sold it the same afternoon for $1.25M. Crazy speculation going on back then

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by robertmark

There were over 100,000 long nose cars produced. And yes, thousands of them still do exist. Excellent point bringing the Ford Mustang into play. Have you seen what some of those sell for at the big auction houses? I am not referring to the Shelbys.

Great story Sal

I said 911. You are adding in the 912s.

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by SalParadise

Let me tell you a story about the late '80s classic car gold rush.

I was 17 working a a Ferrari place in Connecticut, doing odd jobs after highschool. We are talking 1987,1988, part of 1989. It was booming - bigtime.

A family friend who owned several Ferraris (two 308s, a Testarossa, and a BB) had an investor, speculator or what have you walk into his barn in Westport and offered him $120K for the mint 308, $250K for his Testarossa, and $365K for his very mint BB (appropriate money for a car that's a 365 model). He took the money, $735K. His profit was probably $425K.

I was completely flummoxed. I asked him, "Why did you sell?" As I said, I was 17 and I was wide-eyed and thought the sky was the limit. He replied, "Now I can buy that beach house I always wanted, and in six years I can buy the cars back for what I originally bought them for after owning a beach house free and clear for six years."

I thought to myself, yeah, whatever, the cars are gone and they are going to keep going. Enzo is dead. They aren't making anymore. I was 17 and had little world experience. Fast forward six or seven years, he did in fact buy all the cars back - and one was actually one of his old cars. The TR he bought for $75K, the BB for $88K, and the 308 - get this - for $26K.

He was out the cars for those years but he bought a beach house on the Connecticut coast and bought the cars back for less than he paid in the mid-to-early 80s.

I often think of this story and wished I had a bunch of desirable cars to sell.

And oh, the reverse of this is a 250 GTO my boss sold for $89K in 1979 that he thought would be the highest they would ever go. So it goes both ways, but some cars are much more special than others.

Yeah definitely goes both ways. My dad bought a ‘55 speedster basket case for $33k we restored it and it won several concours events but was too nice to drive. I sold it on eBay for $171k which was a record high amount at the time and my dad said let’s take the money and run and run far at that. His car in the condition that it was in which is essentially flawless would be around $400k today approx 10 years later. Do I think $400 is silly? yes. do I think it will correct? Perhaps. The question to always ask yourself recession aside, does its value make sense to other European sports cars around it. How much less is it than the the next more desirable porsche? How much more is it than the last less desirable model? How much are they relative to Ferrari’s and other Marques? If you can’t make sense out of why it’s so high I would back away. If you can’t make sense out of why it’s so low I would buy. This is my logic in the 74-77 euro Carreras.