993s values declining even further?

[Vaive]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Because the actual failure rate is less than 5%. It’s somwthing one should do when doing the clutch but not something that everyone should just rush out and do.

Nobody really knows what the failure rate is. Could be 5, could be 10. At best everyone is making a guess. But whatever it is, it's a risk and it's a 100% failure rate when it happens to you. What % of houses burn down? Less than 1%, yet everyone buys home insurance.

Point is, 996s have a bad reputation because everyone says oh IMS, stay away. When in fact the response should be, oh 996, yeah whatever you buy it for, add $2500 to change the IMS. And the cost of it will be returned more or less at full value when the car is sold since the same calculation will be made in reverse by a potential buyer. I always get a kick out of people who spend $10K on mods, but freak out over doing the IMS.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by Vaive

Nobody really knows what the failure rate is. Could be 5, could be 10. At best everyone is making a guess. But whatever it is, it's a risk and it's a 100% failure rate when it happens to you. What % of houses burn down? Less than 1%, yet everyone buys home insurance.

Point is, 996s have a bad reputation because everyone says oh IMS, stay away. When in fact the response should be, oh 996, yeah whatever you buy it for, add $2500 to change the IMS. And the cost of it will be returned more or less at full value when the car is sold since the same calculation will be made in reverse by a potential buyer. I always get a kick out of people who spend $10K on mods, but freak out over doing the IMS.

I agree with most of your logic, however A lot of us aren’t risk averse. I’m gonna offer you $2000 less on your car because you haven’t done it, and then do it whenever I need a clutch.

My Boxster had a warranty replacement engine at 25k. I think it was 58k when I sold it. I never once considered an IMS for it.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by Vaive

Young-ish

Look no further than the 356 market.

There are a lot more "older guys" than you can imagine !

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-marketplace-discussion/1034036-356-rust-bucket-4.html

[Unobtanium-inc]

Originally Posted by pmax

Look no further than the 356 market.

There are a lot more "older guys" than you can imagine !

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-marketplace-discussion/1034036-356-rust-bucket-4.html

This was taken at a 356 Registry holiday, that's me standing, literally, in a sea of gray!

---Adam

[Rawknees'Turbo]

^^^

And 100% lilly white gray, it looks like. The brothas and sistas, Asians, and Latinos don't like 356s?!?!

[pmax]

Haha Colonel Sanders too !

Hope I'll still be enjoying my G50 at that ripe old age !

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

^^^

And 100% lilly white gray, it looks like. The brothas and sistas, Asians, and Latinos don't like 356s?!?!

I bet 40 years ago the PCA was nearly 100% white folk. In my experience most 356 owners still are.

[aways]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

I bet 40 years ago the PCA was nearly 100% white folk. In my experience most 356 owners still are.

I guess that's what they mean by "White Privilege"...

[Geronimo]

I wouldn't be surprised if we have seen the hayday of air-cooled pricing. It might be that the Gen X'ers have all or mostly scratched that itch and the prices may settle in and just hang and maybe slowly decline as the supply and demand get closer to one another.

Once the hedge fund managers find another singer to flaunt to one another that may also help cool air-cooled prices as well.

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by Geronimo

I wouldn't be surprised if we have seen the hayday of air-cooled pricing. It might be that the Gen X'ers have all or mostly scratched that itch and the prices may settle in and just hang and maybe slowly decline as the supply and demand get closer to one another.

Once the hedge fund managers find another singer to flaunt to one another that may also help cool air-cooled prices as well.

If Singer sales and other high-end builder sales are an indication of where we are headed then I would say quite the opposite as they are not slowing

[Cobalt]

I think sales are slowing due to a lack of quality product along with quality product asking too much.

I still know of a lot of people looking but nothing catches their interest.

[Vaive]

Originally Posted by Cobalt

I think sales are slowing due to a lack of quality product along with quality product asking too much.

I still know of a lot of people looking but nothing catches their interest.

For $50K you can get a 964 or a 991.

The hip cool Porsche kids here would rather slice an arm off than drive a water cooled Porsche of course. But for the other 95% of buyers, not sure how many are willing to pay more for a 30 year old vs a 5 year old 911.

[Cobalt]

Originally Posted by Vaive

For $50K you can get a 964 or a 991.

The hip cool Porsche kids here would rather slice an arm off than drive a water cooled Porsche of course. But for the other 95% of buyers, not sure how many are willing to pay more for a 30 year old vs a 5 year old 911.

For $50k you can get a 964 coupe needing $20k or more in work. The solid well sorted cars start at $70k unfortunately. The new cars are great. Easy to drive and have a lot of creature comforts. Most of the ones I drive I find boring since you need to be doing triple digits to start having fun. My 981 BGTS is a blast for $50k. Closest experience to the older cars although I would sell it long before I sold an Air-cooled.

[Kansas]

Originally Posted by Cobalt

For $50k you can get a 964 coupe needing $20k or more in work. The solid well sorted cars start at $70k unfortunately. The new cars are great. Easy to drive and have a lot of creature comforts. Most of the ones I drive I find boring since you need to be doing triple digits to start having fun. My 981 BGTS is a blast for $50k. Closest experience to the older cars although I would sell it long before I sold an Air-cooled.

That’s total crap. I had a 964. Ugly, slow...needed a tune up and valve adjustment. Sold if for 36k in 2017. Insane that people will pay 50k. My 993 is better in every f’n way than my 964. And I don’t want to hear about how much rawer it is than the 993. Utter BS! I’ve owned both and the difference is splitting hairs in terms of rawness. My 993 is a work of art visually, and drives like a damn dream. The 964 is way overvalued! You want rawness? Then buy an an SC or 3.2...not a 964.

[wayner]

We need another perfect storm of publicity to bring the air-cooled cars back into the global limelight.

-Coming back from a global recession
-Every car magazine on every magazine rack for an entire year with a 911 on the cover

That was what happened in 2013. A 50th anniversary for the 911

With a global recession looming once again, wait til the 60th to sell.

[Cobalt]

Originally Posted by Kansas

That’s total crap. I had a 964. Ugly, slow...needed a tune up and valve adjustment. Sold if for 36k in 2017. Insane that people will pay 50k. My 993 is better in every f’n way than my 964. And I don’t want to hear about how much rawer it is than the 993. Utter BS! I’ve owned both and the difference is splitting hairs in terms of rawness. My 993 is a work of art visually, and drives like a damn dream. The 964 is way overvalued! You want rawness? Then buy an an SC or 3.2...not a 964.

You must have had a piss poor 964 or a tired plain Jane. If you only sold it for only $36k in '17 then that is a given. The worst of them are selling for more and that is easily proven. Everyone wants the 964 for backdates or RS widebody conversions. Amazing what you can do with these and people recognize them as a 911. Most today look at the 993 and unless they are Porsche people have no clue what a 993 is.

I work on both 993's and 964's quite a bit, drive them all the time. There are things I like about the 993 and I have used many parts on my track build but IMO 993= ugly, boring and over complicated for no reason. I do agree they simplified and improved the 964 engine for the 993 although it doesn't stop you from improving a 964 with parts that will easily improve it over a 993. 964 = classic lines, old school feel and a far easier car to work on. Love your 993 but I wouldn't trade any of my 964's for one.

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by Cobalt

You must have had a piss poor 964 or a tired plain Jane. If you only sold it for only $36k in '17 then that is a given. The worst of them are selling for more and that is easily proven. Everyone wants the 964 for backdates or RS widebody conversions. Amazing what you can do with these and people recognize them as a 911. Most today look at the 993 and unless they are Porsche people have no clue what a 993 is.

I work on both 993's and 964's quite a bit, drive them all the time. There are things I like about the 993 and I have used many parts on my track build but IMO 993= ugly, boring and over complicated for no reason. I do agree they simplified and improved the 964 engine for the 993 although it doesn't stop you from improving a 964 with parts that will easily improve it over a 993. 964 = classic lines, old school feel and a far easier car to work on. Love your 993 but I wouldn't trade any of my 964's for one.

I totally agree. The 993 might be the last air-cooled and have the best technology but looks wise the 964 is the last air-cooled 911 in my book.

[hda]

Originally Posted by cobalt

you must have had a piss poor 964 or a tired plain jane. If you only sold it for only $36k in '17 then that is a given. The worst of them are selling for more and that is easily proven. Everyone wants the 964 for backdates or rs widebody conversions. Amazing what you can do with these and people recognize them as a 911. Most today look at the 993 and unless they are porsche people have no clue what a 993 is.

I work on both 993's and 964's quite a bit, drive them all the time. There are things i like about the 993 and i have used many parts on my track build but imo 993= ugly, boring and over complicated for no reason. I do agree they simplified and improved the 964 engine for the 993 although it doesn't stop you from improving a 964 with parts that will easily improve it over a 993. 964 = classic lines, old school feel and a far easier car to work on. Love your 993 but i wouldn't trade any of my 964's for one.

+964

[Vaive]

Originally Posted by Cobalt

For $50k you can get a 964 coupe needing $20k or more in work. The solid well sorted cars start at $70k unfortunately.

On BAT, sure. In the real world, not really. If you have some patience $45K will buy one that needs a little work. $50K will buy one that is pretty solid. And I'm not even counting the flippers or corner lot dealers. I'm talking legit, long term owned cars with documentation.

As for 993 vs 964, I've never owned either, but I've driven both. I drove a 993 before a 964. And I had heard the same "oh a 993 blows 964s away". Then I drove a 964 and thought this is a damn fun car to drive. Maybe slightly less so than a 993. The herd mentality takes a life on its own with these things. Model X is the coolest mostest awesomest thing ever, while Model Y is junk. Then 10 years later, it reverses.

For all the talk of pure and raw and visceral and whatever other adjectives people use for air cooled cars, how come nobody knew this in the mid 2000s when these were were $15K used cars? They were the same cars, in fact they were even better cars because they were 15 years newer than today. Then one day those cars became visceral raw pure $40K cars. Funny how that works.

I'm waiting for the day when a 996 becomes raw and pure and visceral. You know it's coming sooner or later.

[Matt Monson]

I chuckle when people are foolish enough to argue 964 with Anthony.