Considering this 930, but...

[speednme1]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

Is the 930 motor really that much of a pile of crap that it can't even make it to 100k without a rebuild? German engineering? Even a Pinto could make it to 100k without a rebuild.

Not true, it depends on how the car was driven or lack of. BTW comparing a Pinto to a Porsche is like comparing Sofia Vergara to a troll...never do that again..lol

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by speednme1

Not true, it depends on how the car was driven or lack of. BTW comparing a Pinto to a Porsche is like comparing Sofia Vergara to a troll...never do that again..lol

You're right. It's an insult to a GM vehicle to compare it to a car that putatively can't even reach 100k miles without $20,000 worth of service! Sorry Pinto!

[speednme1]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

You're right. It's an insult to a GM vehicle to compare it to a car that putatively can't even reach 100k miles without $20,000 worth of service! Sorry Pinto!

Obviously you know nothing about Pinto's

[slow&rusty]

@speednme1 - you can't reason with someone who just doesn't want to be reasoned with, don't waste your time.

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by speednme1

Obviously you know nothing about Pinto's

I know all about the Pinto's gas tank being positioned directly behind the rear axle's differential bolts that would rupture the gas tank.
Pinto was a piece of **** car, yet it did not need a rebuild at only 100k.
This 930 is the first time I've ever heard of any car of any kind needing a rebuild at only 100k.

Originally Posted by slow&rusty

@speednme1 - you can't reason with someone who just doesn't want to be reasoned with, don't waste your time.

I'm sorry, where exactly is your reasoning? I'm all ears. Please stick to facts, not emotions
My assertion is that a car that needs an engine rebuild at 100k miles is a empirically and objectively a poorly engineered piece of ****

[RarlyL8]

The 930 engine does not necessarily "need" a rebuild at 100k, I've worked on many that had 130-190k (yes one had 189k on the clock) with no rebuilds. The problem is the type of owner that bought these cars new or used and how they treated the car. Quite commonly these cars were treated badly, road hard and put away wet, under on non maintained. Most egregious of these sins was performing the cheapest and most harmful mod possible, slapping a 1.2bar boost spring in a stock engine. Engines treated in this manner will not last, be them Porsche or Pinto. The 930 engine was tested by Porsche by running it on a closed circuit at 90% redline for 100'000 miles with stops only to change drivers and oil. That is documented and can be verified. These cars and engines were designed and built for racing, not originally intended for mass production sales.

[sugarwood]

How long does it take to drive a 100,000 mile test? That's like running 24 hours of LeMans for 2 months straight. Yes, any owner mods that shorten the life of a car are not the fault of the manufacturer.

[RarlyL8]

One month. Rather mind blowing I agree but a pretty strong way to train pit crews and drivers for endurance racing! To get a more real world view just look at the 3.0L SC and 3.2L Carrera. Those engines regularly go 200K+. Boost and (over) fueling of course cuts the life shorter, the 930's that I have seen with high miles were all daily drivers that didn't see boost all that often as a % of drive time and they were all properly maintained.

[speednme1]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

I know all about the Pinto's gas tank being positioned directly behind the rear axle's differential bolts that would rupture the gas tank.
Pinto was a piece of **** car, yet it did not need a rebuild at only 100k.
This 930 is the first time I've ever heard of any car of any kind needing a rebuild at only 100k.

You are obviously young, because many cars in the 60's, 70's and 80's rarely made it to 100k miles without some sort of engine service. Regardless of brand. Cars back then didn't have all the sensors and fail safe equipment that came with many cars in the mid to late 90's. Go learn some car history then come and debate intelligently.

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by speednme1

You are obviously young, because many cars in the 60's, 70's and 80's rarely made it to 100k miles without some sort of engine service. Regardless of brand. Cars back then didn't have all the sensors and fail safe equipment that came with many cars in the mid to late 90's. Go learn some car history then come and debate intelligently.

What a total crock. I've owned 60s, 70s, and 80s cars. Not one needed an engine rebuild at 100k.
I've never seen any segment of car owners obsess over engine rebuilds on low mileage used cars like Porsche owners do.
Why does a car with only 45K miles need an engine rebuild ? Only a steaming pile of defective garbage would need a rebuild at 45k miles.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1978-porsche-930-turbo-20/

[speednme1]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

What a total crock. I've owned 60s, 70s, and 80s cars. Not one needed an engine rebuild at 100k.
I've never seen any segment of car owners obsess over engine rebuilds on low mileage used cars like Porsche owners do.
Why does a car with only 45K miles need an engine rebuild ? Only a steaming pile of defective garbage would need a rebuild at 45k miles.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1978-porsche-930-turbo-20/

BS!!! go back to your Prius and let the grown ups talk because you don't know your arse from your elbow

[SiberianDVM]

My 1965 Pontiac LeMans 326 sure as hell needed a rebuild at 100k miles. Being young and stupid I put a junkyard 455HO in it, about 6 months after the 1st Arab oil embargo in October 1973. 12 mpg was the best it would get, but damn, it had some torque.

[speednme1]

Originally Posted by SiberianDVM

My 1965 Pontiac LeMans 326 sure as hell needed a rebuild at 100k miles. Being young and stupid I put a junkyard 455HO in it, about 6 months after the 1st Arab oil embargo in October 1973. 12 mpg was the best it would get, but damn, it had some torque.

Exactly my point. My 1966 Alfa Giulia Spring GT had around 75k miles when i bought it. It came to me with a complete rebuild. My AE86 Toyota had around 88k miles when it overheated because of a bad water pump. Due to no shoulder on the skyway, I had no choice but to drive it to the next safest location. By the time I got there it was too late, the damaged had been done so a rebuilt was in order. Cars back then did not have the electronics (engine management and/or safety measures..i.e..limp mode) to keep parameters in check. One failed piece of hardware could go undetected until disaster struck. That is why many folks today still believe that once a car reaches 100k miles you're on borrowed time...which may have been true 20-30 years ago..but that is not the case for most brands today.

[dwelle]

meds, shug. meds....

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by speednme1

Exactly my point. My 1966 Alfa Giulia Spring GT had around 75k miles when i bought it. It came to me with a complete rebuild. My AE86 Toyota had around 88k miles when it overheated because of a bad water pump. .

Why did the seller have the Alfa motor rebuilt before 75k?
Alfas are total junk apparently.

[creaturecat]

anyone that thinks a Pinto is a 100000 mile car? gotta be daft.
or a #grievancelookingforacause. perhaps?

[GaryR]

Originally Posted by creaturecat

anyone that thinks a Pinto is a 100000 mile car? gotta be daft.
or a #grievancelookingforacause. perhaps?

US cars in the 70s were SCRAP. My best friend got a new Pinto for graduation, after two years the seat broke through the floor (rot) and the next year the engine died WELL before 100k miles. All my dad's 60's Fords died well before 100k, but I really think oil sludge from the oil formulation and engine design back then was the cause..

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by creaturecat

anyone that thinks a Pinto is a 100000 mile car? gotta be daft.
or a #grievancelookingforacause. perhaps?

, I'm taking about the engine, not the exploding gas tank.

The 2.3L pinto engine was used in production until 1997. You think people were rebuilding that engine at 100k? I don't think so.

[GaryR]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

, I'm taking about the engine, not the exploding gas tank.

The 2.3L pinto engine was used in production until 1997. You think people were rebuilding that engine at 100k? I don't think so.

C'mon, Pinto's disintigrated WELL before the engines could reach 100k.

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by GaryR

US cars in the 70s were SCRAP. My best friend got a new Pinto for graduation, after two years the seat broke through the floor (rot) and the next year the engine died WELL before 100k miles. All my dad's 60's Fords died well before 100k, but I really think oil sludge from the oil formulation and engine design back then was the cause..

A car dying after 2 years is an outlier even in 1920... Your friend was probably a young idiot who never changed the oil. Tons of 70s cars had over 100k with no rebuild

That's funny, there are tons of 60s Ford Mustangs that went past 100k without an engine rebuild. That are still on the road

Most used muscle cars being sold back in the 80s had over 100k and no engine rebuild. Do your remember the term "original miles"?

Most shops aren't even equipped to do an engine rebuild. Ask yourself why that is