Air cooled values seems to have changed

[Macroni]

Jeez...... down here in Philadelphia our cup runneth over w/ quality mechanics.....

[ramonesfreak]

Last year I decided to take my car to a different place....just needed tires and inspection.

I had a bad experience with Firestone years ago changing tires using the wrong lift and crushing my rocker panel trim so I asked this shop if they "knew these cars"......Oh yea, we service a ton of them.....

So I take it and im waiting and this older mechanic comes in to the room and says, you better come with me...He has the car on the lift and says, look (points at dipstick) you have no oil in the car and the gauge on the dash also says no oil.......

hmmmm....WTF are you looking at my oil for new tires and a NYS inspection? and why are you checking it with the engine off?

so.....thats what you get in most of the country when the shop says "oh year we do a ton of those....."

I guess all im saying is, unless i lived in a place with real mechanics or was a lot younger with a lift and an interest in wrenching....no way in hell I would shell out today's asking price for one of these cars.

[Nick Triesch]

Interesting how some say soon there will be no one to repair an old 911 . The 356 will be immune. With a little skill you can tune it in one hour including oil change . Just a 1600 bug engine. Also interesting is the 356 can have had 3 motors , a different transmission and 300,000 miles on the clock that’s been changed out 4 times and still be worth $100,000 plus if it looks nice. $90,000 if if just looks ok.

[Cobalt]

Don't fool yourself there as as many bad old geezers out there that have been doing this for 40 years as there are bad dealership service centers. I find some of the old guys have been doing things wrong for all their life because that was the way they were taught vs understanding what it is and why they are doing it. You have to know your tech or learn how to work on these yourself. Early Porsche's are easier to work on than most think. Although most young techs only know how to plug into a computer.

The best techs are usually engineers who decided working on cars is more favorable but they usually are difficult to get to finish work quickly. They understand why things are done a specific way and sometimes can improve on it.

I have rubbed the underbelly of the industry and some of the best names in the business have done some pretty shady things and get away with it. I have learned not to trust anyone and do as much research as possible. Test your mechanics knowledge and see how they respond. You might be surprised.

[ramonesfreak]

I wouldn’t be surprised at all. My tech who has been working on air cooled 911s since 1974 did an alignment for me and never touched the factory sealant on the camber plates. I haven’t said anything yet….he likely thinks I’m an idiot and wouldn’t notice. If he fixes my pulling to the right issue next week I’ll let it go. If he doesn’t and gives up and tells me it’s my problem then he is going to have a problem.

[Marine Blue]

Originally Posted by ramonesfreak

Rochester so north west corner…..most people in NYC think upstate is Yonkers or White Plains….I guess technically it is but not to me.

I see people with new Ferraris and lambos around here and wonder about their servicing..no dealers here….I guess if you can afford a new one of those then shipping it off to the dealer for an oil change is no problem but I wouldn’t like that one bit

When I was in High School in the 80s my friend’s uncle had a indy Ferrari shop where you could see any old Ferrari being worked on. That shop closed in the early 90s and was the last one….I think being a real mechanic is a dying art and will only get worse.

Having grown up in Upstate NY in the 80’s/90’s I don’t recall there ever being enough air cooled Porsches around to support an independent. It was either the dealer (which was a hole in the wall place) or drive it to one of the metropolitan areas. Same for Mercedes for that matter, they just weren’t that common back then.

If you’re serious about keeping it I would consider driving it to a shop either near the Glen or maybe closer to NYC and have all the major items that you can’t tackle sorted. From there you can just maintain and handle the minor stuff.

Living in SoCal we are very fortunate to have a ton of options but I will say that most shops out here are 4-6 weeks out on their schedules so if you need something done quick you’re stuck unless the shop knows you well.

As far as trends go, at least here in Cali there are plenty of younger guys/gals that own or want to own aircooled Porsches including 356’s. I know it’s a unique market here but I have to believe that any of the larger cities in the US have similar owner demographics.

[Unobtanium-inc]

Originally Posted by ramonesfreak

NY Metro - I can find anything there ....Used to live in NYC and there are very few things one can not find there due to the amount of money in the area and the amount of toys... etc..... most normal places in the country..no.

NYC is a terrible benchmark to use when assessing the state of things...same for the whole tri state area

I saw a recent Magnus interview where he said that he though LA has the largest number of 911s in the world.....He is probably right about that....NYC, coastal California, maybe a few other spots around the country are ok but the rest of us are in bad shape.

The last time I saw air cooled 911s....more than just me, or the occasional 356.....at car shows was at least 12 years ago. I never see them on the road here, maybe once per year Ill drive by one.

If I was in LA or NYC area, I wouldnt think twice about owning a classic Porsche or any classic car since there is a strong service market

If you can make it to Albany, swing by my mechanic, Bavarian Rocket Science. Rick does all my cars, Porsche and Mercedes. He came up through the dealerships in the 60's/70's so tuning MFI is no problem, because he can remember when it was new!

---Adam

[Arcadia]

As far as trends go, at least here in Cali there are plenty of younger guys/gals that own or want to own aircooled Porsches including 356’s. I know it’s a unique market here but I have to believe that any of the larger cities in the US have similar owner demographics.[/QUOTE]

Yep.
I'm out here in fly over country Kansas, and I can't tell you the number of teenagers and 20 somethings that have approached me to take a picture of my SC, in absolute amazement and awe, telling me how this is their dream car, and how much they've been obsessed with these old 911s. Mind you, these are folks that were born at the dawn of the 996 and 997! These cars aren't going anywhere. There is clearly enough enthusiasm among the younger generation to support the air cooled hobby for decades.

[Matt Monson]

As a manufacturer of parts for these cars, I can tell you where the demand for parts is. I sell more gears and LSDs for 915 gearboxes than anything else. Ten years ago it was 996/997 GT3 stuff, with 915 a close second. Now the water cooled stuff, other than GT4s, have much less demand. I don’t remember the last time someone asked me for an LSD for a 991/992. People who buy the older cars are having fun with them. People buying the new ones drive them to Starbucks to show off how successful they are.

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by ramonesfreak

not ship it off to someplace far away which is also a practical/logistical nightmare
.

Rethink this assumption.
Does not have to be.

If you knew of a top tier shop in Albany or Buffalo or WGI
or anywhere within 2-3 hours,
it would actually be easier to ship your car than to drop it off yourself.

It would cost you more, but at least it's an option.
For a large job, an extra $2k shipping may be worth it.

Maybe this gives you some peace of mind.

[Macroni]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

Rethink this assumption.
Does not have to be.

If you knew of a top tier shop in Albany or Buffalo or WGI
or anywhere within 2-3 hours,
it would actually be easier to ship your car than to drop it off yourself.

It would cost you more, but at least it's an option.
For a large job, an extra $2k shipping may be worth it.

Maybe this gives you some peace of mind.

I agree there is a very healthy community for vintage Porsches. You need to get your car to a proper mechanic. These cars do not take a tremendous amount of maintenance or upkeep that is what makes them so great.

[ramonesfreak]

I maintain the car myself...for the most part. What concerns me in the future is needing an engine rebuild or head stud replacement. i have zero interest in doing either. i need neither right now....but 5 years from now or 10...someone will be interested in buying my car and asking that question....who will do the work?

Should the buyer be asking me that question and should my answer be "you" or "you'll have to ship it to Albany"....that scares your typical buyer away. It didn't scare me off because the car was so cheap to buy. At $12K, I didn't bother with a PPI. I barely looked at the car. To me, that's the price of 2 nice guitars. I simply hopped in and drove it home. I got lucky.

But at $50k or $60K or more asking price.....buying behavior changes and at some point, the demand goes down unless the car is truly special or you find the right buyer comfortable with DIY-everything or has the $$ to ship the car off to the spa.

I guess so long as demand continues in the hot spots around the country or world, then the value will remain strong but who knows....locally, i think ultimately values will suffer with the loss of a strong service/support structure

[Matt Monson]

If you are limiting who you sell the car to to your local rural market, you’ve limited yourself to less than 1% of the available buyers. Worrying about what the next guy will think about it is no way to live.

As for the rest, if I were considering spending five figures on rebuilding my engine, finding someone within 100 mi would be way down my list. The right mechanic is top priority, and if it takes half a day’s drive, or more, to drop off the car, I just consider it the cost of getting it done right.

[ramonesfreak]

yea Ill admit, BAT and ebay etc....is a big turn off. Im old fashion. Put add in paper, show car to buyer. done.

I do thank my lucky stars that I didn't pay $60K for the car though.....the low purchase price has given me the freedom to not give a F. I consider the car a toy, not an asset

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by ramonesfreak

yea Ill admit, BAT and ebay etc....is a big turn off. Im old fashion. Put add in paper, show car to buyer. done.

I do thank my lucky stars that I didn't pay $60K for the car though.....the low purchase price has given me the freedom to not give a F. I consider the car a toy, not an asset

Even though I’m only 52, I’m not so different. I freaking hate selling cars. The last 3 cars I’ve sold (all g-bodies) I found buyers right here on Pelican, just by talking about the cars. Buyers pm’d me, we chatted, they wired money and sent a trailer to pick up the cars.

[ramonesfreak]

BTW, I am NOT in a rural market. I live in the 3rd largest city in New York state

[ramonesfreak]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Even though I’m only 52, I’m not so different. I freaking hate selling cars. The last 3 cars I’ve sold (all g-bodies) I found buyers right here on Pelican, just by talking about the cars. Buyer’s pm’d me, we chatted, they wired money and sent a trailer to pick up the cars.

Im 51

Ive had people from here contact me offering the same scenario......Im not ready yet. I truly love this car. My hesitation with the idea of keeping it forever is....age (mine)...my health aint great. these cars are lot of work and the idea of a nice new PDK equipped 917 appeals to my aging brain. I feel very fortunate that I have had this amazing car since i was 34.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by ramonesfreak

BTW, I am NOT in a rural market. I live in the 3rd largest city in New York state

Your 3rd largest city has half the population of my state’s 3rd largest city, even though my state only has 6M people to your state’s 20M.

[ab1752]

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1988-porsche-911-carrera-coupe-28/

Wow, 43k for a crusty carrera.

[NYNick]

The market for these cars is nationwide. The odds of you selling it locally are low unless you have a P-car network. You don't.

I put off selling my classic BMW on BaT for a year because I didn't want to go through all the BS that I sometimes see there. I'm old fashioned too and quite older than both of you. I finally bit the bullet and tried the platform since it appears to be the place to sell a classic car these days.

With a positive attitude and a realistic reserve, I had a pleasant experience and the car sold to somebody 6 hours away.

I have no doubt my 911 will sell whenever I choose be it tomorrow or 5-10 years from now. Like you I'm so far above water with it, it doesn't really matter what it sells for.