87-89 911's

[356six]

I'm starting to look at 87-89 Carreras and was wondering if they have any issues that consistently show-up. I keep seeing low mileage cars (50 -70K) with top end rebuilds due to valve guide wear. Can premature wear be detected with a PPI or is it an educated guess based on engine noise, smoke, etc. For a few grand more, should I be looking at 964's?

[si Banker]

I just got through replacing the valve guides in mine. I have a 1987 coupe which I purchased 11-2003 at which time it had 17,900 miles. At 41,000 miles it started to smoke and burn oil. I wanted to change the cams so out it came. We changed the studs, rod end bolts, heaver valve springs, and replaced the clutch with a European model.

The valve guides in 1987-1989 are a problem on low milage cars. This is the only problem the car has had. I had done a number of mods, to improve cooling and reduce oil temp, when I first purchase it.

Elephant finned oil lines, added an additional cooler inplace of the windshield washer bottle, installed two air scops to direct more air into each cooler, removed the cat and added SSIs and Burch exhaust, and back dated the heating system the result is oil temps of 200 degrees on a 104 degree day.

If you are buying a 87-89 Carrera with 70k or more miles chances are the valve guides are fine or have been replaced.

I have to say I am very satisfied with my car and plan to keep it for a number of years; I think the 1987-1989 are great cars.

[goat]

I have had my 88 for almost 4 years now.
Great engines. If you do find ones with low miles and had the top end rebuilt all the better.
A car If it will have an issue will show up within a specic milege.
Not too sure if you can or can not check for the wear.
A search in the Tech forums would tell you I thought I remember a thread on it.....

[356six]

The one I am looking at has 50K+ and hasn't had anything done to it by the current owner (14 yrs). No smoke at start up, shifts smoother, nice power, etc. But then again I'm used to a 915 tranny and 2.7 engine. What's a top end rebuild worth? Might help in price negotiation.

[si Banker]

The 1984-1989 911s had the rubber center on the clutch on the US market cars. Although it was stronger than the 1978-1983 SCs it is still a weak point and with 50k miles is probably approaching the end of it's life. The clutch material does not need replacing but the rubber center is what breaks.

I paid around $6,000. for my top end rebuild which included a set of stiffer springs and new steel studs. I replaced other compo nets while the car was apart some of which were, the clutch, a set of cams, rod end bolts, oil sending unit and chain rails.

My valve guides started showing signs of leaking at 42k miles. The car you are interested in may not have a problem with the guides.

[real550A]

'87-89 G50 Carreras are great cars. The valve guide issue showed up on many around 60-80k miles, and was evident by leakdown test, oil smoke, and minor consumption. (hmmm...I've heard that before!)
As previously stated, a $6k top end and clutch update makes these one of the best cars out there.

[hytem]

there's a black '88 cabriolet on cars.com with 59K miles on it for $15995. Porter Nissan in Delaware. Looks good, but must have issues you folks are talking about. Dealers don't give these cars away.

[si Banker]

I would rather buy a car that the sales price reflects work that needs to be done than one that the owner says the work has been done. My concern would be, " why is it sitting on a used car lot". If it can pass a ppi and everything else checks out and but valve guides you can have the work done by a shop you know and trust.

If the results of the ppi indicate it needs new guides, I would share that with the used car sales manager and give him a copy of the ppi. He will have to disclose the results of the ppi with anyone who tries to buy it . If he does now disclose the information the dealership would be liable. There are laws though they may differ from state to state, that address deceptive trade or failure to disclose.

[Wayne 962]

It's my opinion that the 1987-89 cars value will increase beyond the 964 cars' value (if it hasn't already). The 964 has styling that not too many people appreciate, and also had a host of potential engine problems too. Great performing cars, but most people either seem to like the 1987-89 cars, or jump to the 993s. One problem is the 996s that are pushing down values of 993s and 964s very quickly. Not so much with the 1987-89 cars though...

-Wayne

[si Banker]

It comes down to what you want out of a car and does a particular car fill your needs. In a perfect world I would rather have a 72-73 coupe but it would not be piratical as a daily driver.

I have been able to get the AC system to perform at an acceptable level even during the Texas summers. As for being under powered, I disagree. Again I have made a number of changes to the engine and suspension.

It may be that the reason I prefer the older cars, because I can change and modify the car. That is what makes it "my car"! I want my car to be a little bit different.

[charleskieffner]

the best way to describe 87-89's is using this analogy. if you restore ANYTHING that is 20 years old, you are going to have a few anxious moments finding some parts that are NLA. if you restore something that is 30 years old, bend over and grab your ankles!

it doesnt matter what it is bikes cars trucks planes etc. and essentially from my experience i am restoring my car to show room new bit by bit, piece by piece. whats really cool due to my spotless driving record(they think im a good driver???) i only pay $410 a year for full insurance(AAA company) including tow and lockout! my tags are dirt cheap so it is really affordable to own let alone maintain(did i say that?) well kinda affordable to maintain. i too was really concerned about valve guides during my search. i was told by stuttgart motors that low mileage 87-89 be suspect. anything above 75k miles has already had them replaced more than likely. since owning mine i have found that it is a lot of trial and error. take to track fix/update. take on roadtrip, fix update. take back to track fix less update more. having been stuck in the early days broke down in BFE wasnt something that gave me warm fuzzies. but after forcing myself to continue the weekly test in 115+ degree heat really brings out all the little gripes and your "fix it list" has fewer items. good luck. my porsche aint a museum piece i drive the snot out of it, shovel wads of cash until it hurts and the bottom line.................i will never sell it! happy '87 cab owner.

[Ray B]

Valve guide wear seems to be hit or miss on these cars. So do, some don't. Everyone has an opinion as to why. You CAN detect valve guide wear (during a PPI) by seeing if tha valves have excessive lateral movement. I think (and hope) these cars will continue to appreciate due to the fact that they were the last "old school" 911s. Kinda like the mid '60s corvettes were worth more than the newer models. Like the '67 vs. the '68 corvette, '73 vs. '74 911s, the 964 cars are percieved by many to be less desireable, hence the upward movement in value for nice earlier cars. My guess is that the nice '87-'89 cars will be more valuable than 996s inside of 10 years (pure speculation on my part).

[si Banker]

Mine started leaking at 40k miles. The car started using more oil than normal and there was some smoke.

I had wanted to put cams in it and I was concerned about the clutch. I had the clutch in my 1982 SC fail and I have been using the car for trips and as a daily driver 2-3 days a week; I did not want to get stranded. I took advantage of the opportunity to also add stiffer valve springs, head studs, and rod bolts. These were areas that could be trouble in the future

I plan on keeping it for a long time, maybe till I can no longer drive at which time I'll find it a good home.

[charleskieffner]

the BEST PART..................my 2 kids get to fight over it when i CROAK! hahahahahahahahaha LOL!

[hytem]

I noticed in Panorama this month the mid to late 80s 911s are selling in the $20K range, while the early 80s SCs are in the $12-14K range. The SCs may be the better buy right now, if the mileage isn't much above 100K, or if there has been an engine rebuild.

The situation on ebay isn't much different: prices tend to be lower--or rather the bids. Sellers are getting $10-15K for 100K mileage SCs, $15-20K for 50K miles or less. You can get a high mileage (>150K) SC for $9-10K. Many don't sell because reserve prices have been set a bit too high. Haven't looked at the late 80s cars yet.

CharlesK: thanks for the 20th st tip. Got my tools from there for a good price.

[charleskieffner]

hytem elvis is a great guy there. have blown me deals on parts for 928 914 my 911. to have a place like that for knick knack crap in my backyard is truly nirvana. elvis (owner is 928 freak). having seen some parts offered from the mid west and right coast rust belts for sale, has horrified us a few times. the only problem is rubber/plastic parts get smoked real quick in the sun here. we just check once a week website listing, and see what has been wrecked, if its our flavor, its usually worth the 80 mile rd.trip to go and poke thru the yard. very organized yard and warehouse. and the value added bonus coming out of my taxes...................they will soon be light rail served. all i need is the county to lay rail 40 miles north to us!

[jorian]

Premature valve-guide wear occurs because in the 3.2 cars, Porsche tightened the tolerances in the guide which can lead to an oil-starvation problem. This is more prevalent in southern cars exposed to higher average temperatures. A PPI will not always diagnose this issue. Run the car up to redline in 3rd or 4th gear and suddenly lift off, you'll get the highest possible vacuum sitation and maybe see a puff of smoke from the exhaust pipes of cars with worn valve guides. - Excellence