Update on the search for a 72

[geshaghi]

As some of you know, I've been looking for a nice 72 coupe and many members of this board have provided great advice and encouragement, for which I am very grateful. I've concluded that there is no such thing as the perfect car, as there is an aspect of owning, maintaining and modifying these early cars that is intensely personal and what works for me probably doesn't work for someone else. I did see one car that was pretty close to perfect, but the asking price was so over the top that I couldn't really get there (the ones that got away can fill several pages). Alas, I gave up on finding the "perfect" car and focused more on finding something close that I could take to my desired state. Along the way, I've ended up with four cars.....

So, without further ado, I thought I would give you all an update on what I've done (don't tell my wife) and seek out a little bit more advice on what I'm thinking about doing now. I'll preface all of this by acknowledging that I have a little bit too much time on my hands right now, which has no doubt contributed to my "problem."

Car No. 1:
A 72E sunroof coupe that had been advertised on the internet, although not in the usual places, for almost a year. The seller didn't seem too interested in selling it either, since he wouldn't return my phone calls or emails and couldn't seem to find any photos other than those taken by his cell phone. One day the car shows up on craigslist and I contact the seller. This time he is apparently serious about selling, he sends me photos, we talk on the phone and I make arrangements to see the car in person. When I arrive, the car is covered in his driveway and hasn't been started in a several months. We finally get the battery charged and the car started, and it seems to drive ok. I go through the receipts he has, and he has spent close to $25,000 restoring the car, although most of it is in cosmetics. Ironically, the original color of this car is also aubergine (see car no.2 below, which I saw before car no.1), but the seller has had the car repainted black. The car looks beautiful, but the interior has been updated with highback seats, 993 door panels and power windows. Mechanicals seem ok (car is not grossly underpowered, but the motor does seem a bit tired), MFI has been replaced with webbers, otherwise all there. I make an offer, which the seller rejects and gives me his firm price, which I think is several thousand dollars too high. I tell him I will think about it and I head to the airport. As I'm getting on the plane, he calls to tell me he is willing to sell me the car for $500 less than what I offered him. How could I say no? This car needs the MFI, some original seats (or reproduction sport seats) and correct door panels. The motor will need a rebuild soon too, so might as well do this when the MFI is being reinstalled. The black repaint is really very nice, so I couldn't bring myself to repaint it aubergine at this point, but maybe for the next paint job...

Car No. 2:
One of the first cars that I saw in person was a 72T about 30 miles from me that was initially advertised on eBay last year in September or October. It looked like a bit of a project, but I contacted the owner and went to see the car in person. Like most things on eBay, the car looked better in the photos than in person, but it was mostly complete, appeared to be numbers matching (no COA though) and was mostly rust free, with a California blue plate. The bidding went a bit beyond my comfort level and I passed. About a month later, I sent the seller an email to see if the deal closed and to my surprise, it had not. The seller had some trouble securing the title and so the original buyer backed out. I went back to see the car again and this time brought it back to my mechanic and a Porsche restorer in Van Nuys. The restorer looked the car over with me and confirmed that it had very good bones. The car now silver was in need of a repaint, but the original color was aubergine. By coincidence, during this time I saw an aubergine 73 coupe driving around my neighborhood, and fell in love with the color. I made an offer on this 72T project, which was contingent on the owner securing a title, and he turned me down. So I kept looking. Fast forward about six months and the seller finally has the title and calls me to tell me if I'm still interested in the car, he'll sell it to me at the price I offered. I look at the car some more, tell him I don't think it's worth as much as it was six months ago, but I end up buying it. This car runs and drives, but really needs a complete restoration. I love the color though.

Car No. 3:
My brother is selling a car of his (not a Porsche), and a prospective buyer comes to take a look. In the course of discussions, my brother learns that he has an early Porsche and calls me. The urban equivalent of a barn find, we discover a car that has been sitting on the side of a home in Studio City for more than 15 years. The seller however has photos and documents showing the car was rebuilt 20 years (but less than 15,000 miles) ago. This car is a 69T chassis with a 71S motor with PMO carbs. Amazingly no rust. I'm thinking that the car will make a great hot rod of sorts, so we make a deal and come back and trailer the car home that afternoon before he could change his mind.

Car No. 4:
My wife is from North Carolina and we have a vacation home not far from where she grew up. On our most recent trip to NC, I went to see two cars. The first was the sepia 72T that I've discussed here - a very nice car but unrealistically priced. The second car was a 72T listed on CL in Charlotte, with no photos and not much of a description. I emailed the seller and got his phone number. The seller returned my call and I went to see the car. This one turns out to be a documented 3-owner car, with receipts for service all the way back to the 70's. The seller has owned the car since 1985, had a rebuild done about 12 years but less than 10,000 miles ago, The car is complete, documented, numbers matching, minimal rust with sport seats. His asking price was reasonable for a well documented car even without the sport seats, so I can't resist and we make a deal.

My plan:
When I bought car no. 4, I was contemplating driving the car through the summer while I'm on the east coast, then swapping the sport seats for the standard seats in car no.2 and trying to sell car no. 4 and restore car no.2 (mostly because I like the period color of car no. 2 more than the silver of car no. 4). The more I've thought about this though, the more I think car no. 4 is the keeper of the bunch, given it's documented history, so car no. 2 may be up for sale.

Car no. 3 is still a candidate for a hot rod, and since I have time on my hands it will be a fun project and a learning experience for me. I will soon begin the process of taking this one apart.

Still not sure whether to invest the money in car no. 1 to bring it back to original, leave it as it, or sell it to thin the herd. I'm leaning towards investing the money in the mechanicals and the interior, which would give me a much better than driver level 72E sunroof coupe, and if I really need aubergine, I could take plunge and change the color back.

All this could change of course if I found the perfect car tomorrow. I will try and get photos of the cars in the next few days and post them for you guys to see. Any comments, advice or other musings are appreciated.

Thanks

[speedracer]

Wow, you bought all 4? Lets see some pics!

[Mark020]

Great story. Search for 1, buy 4. Still married ?

[Macroni]

4 ???????

[geshaghi]

Originally Posted by Macroni

4 ???????

Yeah, I know, kind of crazy. Wife is very tolerant...

[ossiblue]

Boy, would a lot of us like to have your problem!

Here's my musing on your dilemma. Keep #4 as you can't duplicate the provenence and it is already in good condition with minimal needs to increase its quality.

The hard part, of course, is what to do with the other two so I'll offer up a few questions: First, what do you want to wind up owning? You already have a quality T if you keep #4. Do you want to invest in another T (#2) or in another model, the E, and have a variety of cars?

Second, have you penciled out the costs for #1 and #2 to bring each up to an equitable value, knowing that they require different areas of restoration (I assume cost is something you are interested in)? That, coupled with your answer to question #1 may help you decide the course to follow.

Third, if you are going to thin the herd how important is it to recoup your expenses on the car (purchase price + any improvements)? I don't mean to take a loss, but how easy would it be to move the car in this market and what would be the return (higher sale price) on what you put into the car? Both car #1 and 2 sound like they need some major investments ("will need a rebuild soon...needs a complete MFI...complete restoration...") to meet your needs, but would someone else be satisfied to not have an originally correct E or a T that needs a "complete restoration" in your opinion but not in theirs?

Just musings, but I hope this offers some insight. As you know, I've followed your quest out of a mutual interest in 72's so I appreciate that you keep us up to date. BTW, if you're at all interested in a 73.5T as a substitue for one of your 72's, feel free to drop me a PM.

Oh, one more thing--I think one of the 72E's you looked at is now on eBay. Owners last offer was for $16.5K on Craigslist. Dealer has it for $19.5 BIN on eBay.

[geshaghi]

Larry -

I think I'm thinking along the same lines as you.

Car no. 4 is well documented, runs well and had a rebuild a few years back but less than 10,000 miles. I think the car can be mechanically freshened up, replace the rubber and a touch up a few minor cosmetic issues, spending about $3,000 - $5,000, and ending up with a high quality no stories driver level 72T with sport seats.

Car no. 1 will take somewhere between $10,000 - $15,000 to take back to original, but I've already sourced an MFI and I'm debating whether to go with reproduction sport seats or some original non-sport recaros. I'm pretty sure the 993 door panels have got to go, even though they are kind of nice. I'll probably leave this car black for now, as the paint was really well done and has only one area of blemish that I will have repaired. If the paint starts to deteriorate and the car needs a repaint, or I just must have aubergine, I'll go back to the original color. This will end up being a very high quality 72E sunroof coupe.

The economics for car no.2 don't work for me, especially as the market has deteriorated so much since I first saw the car. I figure it is easily an $18k-$20k restoration, as the car, while complete, needs both cosmetics and mechanicals and I would probably have most of the work done by professionals. This one will probably end up for sale.

Car no. 3 will be my project. The price was cheap enough where I can use it to play and learn, and I'll probably start stripping it soon to clean it up. The car was repainted black about 20 years ago, but the weather has taken it's toll. Original color was ossi blue, which can be seen in numerous places, so we'll probably go back to that.

I'll try to get some photos this week for everyone to see. If anyone is around Van Nuys and wants to stop and see them in person, feel free to email or PM me. BTW - I did see the 72E on eBay - it's also advertised in Hemmings. It will be interesting to see if current ads get more traction than craigslist. And let me know about your 73.5!

Thanks

George

[techweenie]

Any idea of when the Aubergine car (#2) will be for sale? I know of a couple of folks actively looking, now.

[geshaghi]

I'm hoping to decide this coming week. Feel free to PM or email me directly. Thanks

[geshaghi]

I don't "need" 4 cars and have decided to sell the 72T that I had bought with the intention of restoring. I will take some photos in the next few days but thought I would give a heads up here in the meantime, and post a photo or two from the PO. The car is very complete, and runs, although I think it needs a thorough going through to drive it any distance. The original color was aubergine, but it has been repainted silver, and the clear coat in several areas is showing age. The paint on the rear deck lid seems to have had some heat issues as it is completely shot. The car has only one rust spot that I have found, which is at the lower passenger side corner of the rear window. I have had it up on a rack and the floors and front pan are very solid, still having the original sound-deadening material on the inside and no evidence of rust or prior repair from the underside (although the pan has the typical impressions from jacking, but nothing too severe). Interior is in good condition, with a decent headliner, good seats (one tear in driver's seat), carpet was replaced at some point, dash cracked in the typical spots, missing door pockets. Mechanically, while the car will start and drive, I believe it needs a thorough going through as the motor seems a bit tired. The car has oil-fed tensioners, so it has had some attention at some time in the past. When I bought the car, there was a completely ridiculous non-standard exhaust on the car (header with a home-made stainless muffler - see the photo from when I bought it), and we are in the process of replacing this with the heat exchangers and muffler that was on the 71S motor I have. Transmission feels a bit sloppier than the typical 915, but shifts fine without any grinding, so I believe the car may need shift bushings. I have the COA from Porsche and it is a numbers matching car. Options as reflected on the COA include stabilizers f/r, comfort package, air conditioning (which is still there), tinted glass and Pirelli tires. Car has 15" fuchs and rubber holds air, but tires need to be replaced. California blue plate, currently titled and registered in my name, and stored in Van Nuys, CA not far from several well-known shops and restorers. I originally bought this car because it was a very solid and unmolested California car worth restoring, and I like aubergine. But in the scheme of things, this is now the most likely candidate to be sold given that I have three others. In terms of price, I was contemplating an asking price of $11,900, but am open to offers as well as potential trades.<BR>

<BR>

[rogman]

car number 4....loving it have the same car nos matching mfi 2.4 in the middle of a full restoration and just discovered the original color to be guess what.....sepia 77 i have no clue as to what this color will look like or if i even want it....do a pelican a favor would you please post a picture of your number 4 would love to check it out!!!! i think we all would.....very rare from what i understand especially the year 72 with the rear oil door, im told that was to have been changed in 71 but germany snuck by remaing parts for earlier production......reason why americans were putting gas in the oil tanks!!! let me know if can post it....thanks rogman.....

[Fishman7]

My 72 Euro Targa will be completed shortly, can't wait to see all of that aubergine on the panels! Geshaghi; four P cars, man after my own heart!

[geshaghi]

Originally Posted by rogman

car number 4....loving it have the same car nos matching mfi 2.4 in the middle of a full restoration and just discovered the original color to be guess what.....sepia 77 i have no clue as to what this color will look like or if i even want it....do a pelican a favor would you please post a picture of your number 4 would love to check it out!!!! i think we all would.....very rare from what i understand especially the year 72 with the rear oil door, im told that was to have been changed in 71 but germany snuck by remaing parts for earlier production......reason why americans were putting gas in the oil tanks!!! let me know if can post it....thanks rogman.....

Car no. 4 is actually silver, not Sepia. I saw a sepia 72 on the same trip. Unfortunately, I don't have any photos of the sepia 72, but if you look in the gallery I'm sure you will find some. Good luck with your restoration.

[rogman]

thanks for the reply......will check the gallery......

[geshaghi]

Well, car #2 is sold and will be heading to Europe. Frankly, I was a bit surprised at all the interest that the car received, as I only posted the car here, the early S registry and thesamba.com. More than 100 inquiries and several serious offers on the car. The car is on the trailer and will be delivered to the shipper within the next few days. I can't help but have some pangs of remorse as I let this one go, but funds will go towards other projects.

Here is a link to some photos of cars 1, 2 and 3 (tried to post them here, but for some reason wouldn't upload).
http://picasaweb.google.com/geshaghian/Porsches?feat=directlink

Car #3 (the 69T with 71S motor) is being converted to a track toy, and a friend is helping me put this together. We are hunting for suspension components at the moment (if anyone has sway bars, please PM me!). Drained the fluids the other day and the inside of the motor looks very very clean. Hope to start it sometime in the next couple of weeks. Car #1 sits covered and inside mostly as we focus on #3 - I think this car will remain black for now, and I am looking for period correct seats and door panels to return it back to a more original configuration. No photos of car #4 yet, as it sits in a family friend's garage in North Carolina. Thanks again to everyone who has followed the saga, expressed interest in any of the cars and offered support.

[geshaghi]

So car #2 was delivered to the shipper last Friday and it is now on a container headed for Holland. I think it will be a beauty once restored, and know I will have pangs of regret when the buyer sends me photos of the completed project, but I decided I was happy to be a car lighter and the race car project with car #3 is taking plenty of time and money. But alas, things are never simple. We were home this past Memorial Day weekend and I still tend to scan ads for cars (old habits die hard)... On Sunday evening, I came upon a craigslist posting for what looked like a nice 73.5 911 coupe about 100 miles away at an attractive price. Long story short, Monday morning my wife drove me down, I bought the car and drove it back. This one looks like a 3 owner car with a high quality glass out repaint about 15 years ago by the third owner. Needs new seats, as the originals are completely shot, but I picked up the pair that had been advertised in the parts section. Picture of car #5 is attached.

[aminter0]

That by chance wasn't the car for sale down in Temecula was it??

Either way... congrats!!

[geshaghi]

Originally Posted by aminter0

That by chance wasn't the car for sale down in Temecula was it??

It was

[aminter0]

Heh, I emailed the seller shortly after the car posted, never heard anything back... Either way, good find and glad to see it went to a good home!

[geshaghi]

The disease persists. Just picked up a numbers matching 69E. Car is in decent shape, with a documented rebuild within the last 2000 miles, and records going back to the early 90's. Bahama yellow over tan interior, with one decent repaint about 10 years ago that's still holding up well. Picked the car up on Friday - here's a photo as we were towing it back. Has anyone seen the front push-bar before? Seller said he thought it was a factory piece, but I don't think so. Recent aftermarket Hellas will probably come off soon.