75 Carrera on Ebay

[davidbir]

Has anybody been to see this car and can give an opinion on it:
Porsche : 911:eBay Motors (item 330362357741 end time Oct-03-09 06:47:15 PDT)

[jjrowe]

Just from the pics I would say run away. No way that is an 18k car. The 1975 carrera really isn't a collectible and in that condition it needs some obvious TLC.

[RWebb]

don't confuse US & Euro Carreras - big big diff.

[NewfieMZ3]

Don't bother. $18 K can get you a very nice 3.2 Carrera without the issues of a 2.7engine...........and the bit of a mess that car is in. If he really had an offer of $20K as stated in the AD, he should have taken it and run. This car is worth about 7-8K in my opinion.

[trader220]

If he has a 20k offer why is the buy it now lower? Run Forest Run

[davidbir]

Originally Posted by RWebb

don't confuse US & Euro Carreras - big big diff.

I wasn't confusing it-see this thread:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/498638-74-euro-carrera.html

Is Steve911 around? He apparently was interested in buying it but backed out....

[McLovin]

I've been watching the eBay auctions on 70s 911s for a few months. I've noticed their cars, like that one and the '74 911 they have have been advertised and relisted over and over again for a while now.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by jjrowe

The 1975 carrera really isn't a collectible and in that condition it needs some obvious TLC.

5 years ago I would have agreed with you. However the US Carreras have started to pick up value in the last couple of years. They aren't into long hood territory, but they are worth way more than other mid-year 2.7l cars and long term I fully expect them to be worth more than 911scs and 3.2l Carreras.

They just aren't making any more of these old cars. Most anything with limited production is going to have value long term. There's a small group of guys who have been quietly collecting the really nice '75 and 75 Carreras and a few of them have made a pretty penny on the appreciation they've seen in the last 36 months.

As for the car in question? It looks pretty rough. I don't think it's worth what the seller thinks it's worth. That's a $12-15K car as it sits. It needs $5-8k worth of work to make it right and make it worth $20K+

I suggest you call the shop and see if they'll talk to you about the car. Their name is clearly visible in the pictures. They're a good shop and a customer of mine. I would expect them to be honest with you, if they are willing to talk to you. If they don't want to talk about the car, or only talk about the good things, assume it's worse than it looks in the pictures. At the very least it can't hurt to call them.

[kilodawg]

I always come out of the woodwork when this topic comes up and get flamed accordingly.

Limited numbers would have to be the single most important factor for pricing to drive the value of the '74 and '75 US Carreras over an equivalent condition 3.2L.

I mean you would really, really have to be fixated on numbers.

These cars just don't have anything special going for them otherwise..If they are your passion by all means go for it but there are far better ways to spend your Porsche bucks IMHO....Now a Euro Carrera is a completely different story. That engine is worth the price of admission.....

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by kilodawg

I always come out of the woodwork when this topic comes up and get flamed accordingly.

Limited numbers would have to be the single most important factor for pricing to drive the value of the '74 and '75 US Carreras over an equivalent condition 3.2L.

I mean you would really, really have to be fixated on numbers.

These cars just don't have anything special going for them otherwise..If they are your passion by all means go for it but there are far better ways to spend your Porsche bucks IMHO....Now a Euro Carrera is a completely different story. That engine is worth the price of admission.....

I'm not going to be the one to flame you. I agree with you 100%. My analysis of the market in no way means that I am one of the guys interested in them. For the same money today I'd buy a 3.2l Carrera and put a whale tail and IROC body kit on it.

I personally don't buy cars hoping they'll appreciate. That's nothing but a recipe for trouble. I buy cars because they are what I like and want to own. Different strokes for different folks. I like to think there's a perfect Porsche for ever person. You've just got find it, and then hope you can afford it.

[davidbir]

Playing the Devil's advocate here: The difference between a US and a ROW 74-5-6 Carrera is in the engine right? supposing we just upgrade the engine to Euro specs? MFI, proper cams, pistons etc-if the car needs an engine overhaul it isn't a huge financial burden. So now we have a Carrera, matching numbers, but converted to Euro spec at far less cost than a 'real' Euro Carrera. I know, the market says it isn't real but, do you want a to pay another 30 grand or do we want to experience the thrill of driving?
The whole concours, matching numbers, original thing is potentially BS and I suspect we have been lead there by marketers with questionable reasons.....

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by davidbir

Playing the Devil's advocate here: The difference between a US and a ROW 74-5-6 Carrera is in the engine right? supposing we just upgrade the engine to Euro specs? MFI, proper cams, pistons etc-if the car needs an engine overhaul it isn't a huge financial burden... I know, the market says it isn't real but, do you want a to pay another 30 grand or do we want to experience the thrill of driving?

Ok, I'll take the bait. Doing what you want to do with the engine is going to cost you another 10-15K, putting you into the car for $25,000-35,000 depending on what it ends up costing you to buy the car to start with. And this assumes that the body (not on this Ebay car), brakes, suspension, transmission and everything else are up to snuff.

If you want to experience the thrill of driving why not just grab someone else's $20,000 (or less) mid-year car (assuming that you have a thing for this particular look and that's what you want) with a 3.0 or 3.2l swap in it and get the same thrill? I guess where I am going with that question is to see what's your motivation in getting a 74-75 USDM Carrera? Do you want something to drive that you think will be collectible long term? Is it the particular look? What steers you towards this group of cars in the first place.

I personally have a "woody" for the '74 IROC cars as well as the 934's. I think what they did with those racecars before it got ridiculous with the 935's and K3's and Moby Dick and whatnot are some of the most gorqeous cars Porsche ever did.

Ferg's brown '74 US Carrera (#391) is in my opinion one of the prettiest P-cars in Colorado.

[davidbir]

Thanks for biting!
I understand your attraction to the early RSRs-I recall Peter Gregg racing at Westwood and it was great to watch. But at 61 I don't want big flairs and spoilers-I want subtlety. I am not hung up on the mid seventies cars, in fact I prefer the look of the 73 RS. I am going to piss some people off here: I think that either backdating a later car or fitting a 3.2 and RS flairs to a car is missing the point-rather like having a photo of the Mona Lisa-it may look ok from 20 feet but it has no relationship beyond general appearance. The reason the 73 RS is so revered is not because of it's appearance but because of the performance of that MFI 2.7--guys with Euro Carreras say the same thing-it is just 'alive'. (I have driven a couple of real RSs but it was years ago so I am repeating others impressions).
The 74 and 75 US Carrera is the same car as the Euro Carrera except for the engine-so, if you convert it properly to MFI-and I take your advice on engine costs but as a good scrounger I think I could do it for a little less-you should end up with a car that performs the same as a Euro Carrera for far less. It would still be a genuine Carrera, it wouldn't be backdated or updated. It could even be matching numbers!
Discuss

[kilodawg]

davidbir I understand your point. However it's still only a photo of the Mona Lisa. A Hi-Def one perhaps but still just a photo.

[Matt Monson]

David ( I am assuming this is your name),
Given what you are telling us about your interests and motivations, I don't undstand why you don't get yourself a '73 E, do the same MFI RS spec engine treatment and call it done. That gets you closer to the looks of the RS, which you have admitted is more to your liking. The subtle underpinnings like the brakes and rear control arms are all things easily changed if you really think it will make a difference to the driving experience. It won't have flares or a whale tail, which you are saying don't interest you.

I guarantee that in the end game, the '73 E will have at least equal value to a '74 or '75 Carrera even though it's not a "genuine Carrera" as you claim. And for the record, I personally don't buy that claim. It was a trim level for the US market. Albeit is had some things that the real Carrera (which is a Carrera RS in my book) got, but it's still a trim level, nonetheless.

[davidbir]

Well I was playing Devil's advocate so I got what I deserved! "Hi Def" I like that!
But there is more to the US Carreras than trim level-if you follow the link I put it near the beginning of the thread you can see the similarity.

I agree, a 73 E would be best for me. Got one for sale?

[kilodawg]

David,

I think that most of the guys here recognize the similarities, it's just that the engine really is the biggie.....

I took out both my stock '73T and my stock 930S today and truth be told if I could have just one I would opt for the "T" as the most enjoyable car to drive. It's what I grew up with (my first 911 was a '74 back in '74) and fits like a well worn pair of jeans.

Now if I decided to scale back the "fleet" and take some of the capital and reinvest it in a rebuild to RS specs, a quality repaint, suspension refresh and some interior mods (sport seats etc.) I think I would have found my perfect car. I just still can't fathom the thought of an empty space in my garage and besides come tomorrow I will probably like the 930S better again. I just never can seem to really decide

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by davidbir

But there is more to the US Carreras than trim level-if you follow the link I put it near the beginning of the thread you can see the similarity.

I don't think you're reading my replies closely enough. I acknowledged the other things. It's just my opinion that even with those things, it's still not much more than a trim level.

Sorry, I don't have an E available. If I had an "E" I wouldn't be building an engine for my '68 911T. It's getting an "E" spec 2.4l, but with the Webers instead of MFI.

[davidbir]

Right! so everyone look for a 72 or 73 E for me

[Matt Monson]

I'll keep my eyes open. I never know what I am going to come across. That '68 just sort of fell in my lap last month.