Wow! $10000 Flip to fellow Pelicans!

[6300 RPMs]

Porsche : 930 Turbo Coupe 2-Door in Porsche | eBay Motors

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/723534-1979-930-coupe-silver-blue-68k-miles.html

[sm70911]

Dont know about the flip but a good example of what a difference decent photography and a detailing makes.
I do really like the car tho : )

[grendiers]

I sold a fairly rare '71 Jeep CJ5 Renegade to a used car dealer not long ago. Not long after he doubled the price on Ebay and sold the car! The new owner contacted me about signing a bill of sale since the car dealer never put the title in his own name. Eff off I said, I didn't sell the car to you. Last time I sign a title and not get the new owner to sign in my presence. Grrrrr.

[geshaghi]

I don't get the disdain. What is wrong with someone making money by selling a car? Last I checked, we were still a free market capitalist society here in the USA.

[dz-vintage]

WOW what a beautiful car.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by geshaghi

I don't get the disdain. What is wrong with someone making money by selling a car? Last I checked, we were still a free market capitalist society here in the USA.

It's the idea of using Wayne's good nature and this free forum to pad your wallet.

If you want to flip, great. Use eBay or CL. But taking advantage of Wayne's free forums and preying on the community of Pelikaners is the shady part.

If you want to be a capitalist, that's great. Using a comminuty forum and taking advantage of the good nature of the site owner is the not-so-great part.

[geshaghi]

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6

It's the idea of using Wayne's good nature and this free forum to pad your wallet.

If you want to flip, great. Use eBay or CL. But taking advantage of Wayne's free forums and preying on the community of Pelikaners is the shady part.

If you want to be a capitalist, that's great. Using a comminuty forum and taking advantage of the good nature of the site owner is the not-so-great part.

So posting a car or part for sale in the classifieds section of this forum requires that it be sold at a loss?

[mreid]

This is the kind if thinking that is screwing up society. You are trying to say that it is the sellers fault for "taking advantage of people" and reselling the vehicle. That's crap. How do you determine the sales price of a used product? There are several ways, but they all boil down to "what someone is willing to pay". Frankly, you are the one taking advantage of Wayne's good will by using this forum that Wayne uses to make money to cry about someone else making money. The simple solution is don't buy it. Don't try to legislate the options of others.

[vintagecarlover]

i agree that its okay to buy something at a steal and post it for sale elsewhere, here included. if seller put it for sale on craigslist, do you send Craig an email too? really no big deal imho

[cvlcporsche]

I have never understand why people feel a cars worth bears any relation to what the seller paid for it. For some weird reason people think it is unethical for a seller (either dealer or private party) to make a "profit" selling a car. Any items value is set by a willing buyer and a willing seller. The original Ebay seller found a willing buyer at $28k. A Win/Win. The current owner hopes to find a willing buyer at $38k. If he finds a willing buyer than once again two parties are getting what they want. Nobody would be forcing the next buyer into buying it. Again a win/win for both.

Some people also make the silly argument that there should be some arbitrary limit on what would be an acceptable profit and what would be "greedy" or unethical. Again willing buyer, willing seller. I get tired of people saying its ok to make a few $$ just not a lot.

I will give a few examples to see if that provides any insight:

Scenario 1- Your Great Uncle passes away and leaves you his 31k original mile 1967 911S Coupe. To some peoples thinking that since you paid zero for the car, you should only be allowed to make a reasonable profit, i.e free + a couple thousand dollars. So a fair price according to these rules would be ~$2500. HELL NO! The car is worth what the market will bear, in this case well over $100k. Great deal for the seller an a great deal for the buyer who is looking for one.

Scenario 2- A person/dealer buys a Porsche and simply pays to much for it, should he expect to sell it for too much + reasonable profit. HELL NO! Its simply worth what the market will bear for it.

Capitalism at its finest.

As for "using" Wayne, if he doesn't like it he could change the rules on engagement and preclude the selling of cars on his forum. My guess however is that he benefits (as he should, thank you Wayne!) from all types of Porsche web traffic.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6

It's the idea of using Wayne's good nature and this free forum to pad your wallet.

If you want to flip, great. Use eBay or CL. But taking advantage of Wayne's free forums and preying on the community of Pelikaners is the shady part.

If you want to be a capitalist, that's great. Using a comminuty forum and taking advantage of the good nature of the site owner is the not-so-great part.

It is two different things if someone is professionally buying and reselling cars and using Pelican to that end.

On the flipside (pun intended), sometimes you come across a deal and while it isn't really what you are looking for, you buy it and immediately resell it because you can make a little profit.

I consider the latter a single flip. The former is being a flipper. They are two different things. And the dirtiest of flippers are the ones who lie about their agenda to make a deal. Those are the ones I despise. Otherwise I don't fault a guy for finding a deal and cashing out on it once in a while. That's not being a flipper in my book.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by geshaghi

So posting a car or part for sale in the classifieds section of this forum requires that it be sold at a loss?

I'm not sure which post of mine you're quoting there. Or which part of any post I've ever made anywhere that even implies that.

Are you sure you're replying to the correct post?

[bwall]

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6

It's the idea of using Wayne's good nature and this free forum to pad your wallet.

If you want to flip, great. Use eBay or CL. But taking advantage of Wayne's free forums and preying on the community of Pelikaners is the shady part.

If you want to be a capitalist, that's great. Using a comminuty forum and taking advantage of the good nature of the site owner is the not-so-great part.

Who is using who?

This free forum creates traffic for the website, which increases the rates he can charge for advertising. It also draws in new customers for the new parts that he sells. It's like a one night stand here, everyone gets what they want for their own purposes, no questions asked.

CL is also free, so what's the difference between the websites?

I do not think that it is practical to draw a ring fence around where trade between willing buyer/willing seller is allowed and where it isn't allowed.

[bwall]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

It is two different things if someone is professionally buying and reselling cars and using Pelican to that end.

And the dirtiest of flippers are the ones who lie about their agenda to make a deal. Those are the ones I despise. Otherwise I don't fault a guy for finding a deal and cashing out on it once in a while. That's not being a flipper in my book.

Are you talking about lying about the car or about the motives for selling?

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by bwall

I do not think that it is practical to draw a ring fence around where trade between willing buyer/willing seller is allowed and where it isn't allowed.

The practicality of a thing and the desirability of that thing are not related.

The question is how far do you go? Everything goes? Most everything goes? Some stuff is fine, others not? Nothing goes?

OK, Wayne's line is not bright and clear, or folks run in the grey area - so why is my idea unacceptable, and the "anything goes" folks OK, even though it's obvious from Wayne's notes in the forums that not everything goes?

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by bwall

Are you talking about lying about the car or about the motives for selling?

I think both are unacceptable. In a pure "buyer beware" world, anything goes.

But is that really what folks want? I'm guessing that most people would want BOTH sides of the buyer/seller relationship to abide by some Golden Rule ethical framework.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by bwall

Are you talking about lying about the car or about the motives for selling?

SilberUrS6 has another thread about forum protocol from the other day where I tell a specific story about a steering wheel. Buyer gave me this whole song and dance about how my Nardi was the crown jewel on his about to be finished restoration and how he really wanted it. He and I talked back and forth for a couple of days, and I eventually made the guy a good deal on it because he had gotten me emotionally involved in his restoration and I wanted to do something nice for a fellow Pelican. It was about this time of year and I was just using the money from the wheel for Christmas presents, so figured by not make a holiday gesture and give the guy a good price. I was fully aware I was selling it under market price.

I saw the wheel in the classifieds a couple of days later. The buyer was a flipper. I have subsequently seen many wheels and horn buttons for sale by this particular member. Wheels and buttons are what he flips...

[bwall]

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6

I'm not sure which post of mine you're quoting there. Or which part of any post I've ever made anywhere that even implies that.

Are you sure you're replying to the correct post?

I believe it is this quote that he is referring to:

"It's the idea of using Wayne's good nature and this free forum to pad your wallet.
If you want to flip, great. Use eBay or CL. But taking advantage of Wayne's free forums and preying on the community of Pelikaners is the shady part."

geshagi is testing the logic of a therum by applying the negative--if it's not ok to pad your wallet (on a re-sale) then it must only be acceptable to sell at a loss. Logic allows for no other answer. Thus geshagi's post

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by bwall

I believe it is this quote that he is referring to:

"It's the idea of using Wayne's good nature and this free forum to pad your wallet.
If you want to flip, great. Use eBay or CL. But taking advantage of Wayne's free forums and preying on the community of Pelikaners is the shady part."

geshagi is testing the logic of a therum by applying the negative--if it's not ok to pad your wallet (on a re-sale) then it must only be acceptable to sell at a loss. Logic allows for no other answer. Thus geshagi's post

Except that there are not only two positions. Thus, false dichotomy.

The position that exists that you do not allow for is the position that a sale is at zero profit and zero loss.

There is a spectrum, not merely discreet points. And it includes intentionally mis-represented parts and attitudes. Like intentional poor-mouthing a seller in order to gain the absolute best price for a part. IOW, lying to saving money.

If everything goes, then this is acceptable behavior. If some ethics are expected, then we are now discussing difference in degree.

[bwall]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

SilberUrS6 has another thread about forum protocol from the other day where I tell a specific story about a steering wheel.

I saw the wheel in the classifieds a couple of days later. The buyer was a flipper. I have subsequently seen many wheels and horn buttons for sale by this particular member. Wheels and buttons are what he flips...

OK.. . . yeh, that is pretty slimy. Lying is never an acceptable negotiating tactic, used by people who have zero negotiating skills.

Many years ago I was preparing for an extended trip to Africa. I was told to negotiate the price of EVERYTHING. Hotels, restaurants, transportation, etc. were all fair game and I was pretty intimidated by the prospect. Before I left I met with a European who had grown up in Zaire. She said that I could never say 'I don't have the money' as a negotiating tool. And running down the wares was equally poor form for the simple matter that neither were true. As a tourist I had money by definition and if the items weren't of interest why was I talking with them?

And she also gave me the answer to those pesky sellers who try to sell you anything so that they can have something to eat that night; 'not today'. I still use that when confronted with homeless/beggars in the USA; 'not today'--not quite as cold as 'no' and gives the impression that they just caught me on the wrong day.