Value of schwarz 1972 911T targa

[speeder]

I don't want to get into another stupid and pointless argument here but you guys truly don't know what a #2 car is. A resprayed, high mileage driver type car like this is not remotely a #2 car. I don't recall ever seeing a #2 car for sale on this board. You would not want to park this car anywhere near a #2 car.

With its cracked dash, worn interior and missing MFI, this was a $10k car forever until the recent nuttiness. It may very well sell for $75k to some desperate Chinese dude who makes $3M a year and thinks he's getting the last early 911 for sale on earth but let's not jack-off and call it a #2 car.

[speeder]

FWIW, I am NOT calling the car a POS or any such thing. Just nowhere near a #2 car. A #2 car would appear to be brand new to the untrained eye.

[coldstart]

I do not pretend to be an expert in the marketplace and that is why I sought outside opinions. I appreciate constructive opinions both positive and negative.

Based on the Hagerty descriptions, I agree that the car is not a #2 condition car.

I disagree with the assessment of calling a bare metal documented repaint a 'respray' or the interior being 'worn'. I agree that the pictures presented are crappy and I will take better pictures before posting the car for sale.

You also have to take into account the value of the extra options from a regular spec 911T (sport seat, five original anodized Fuchs, factory A/C, wheel well trim, s-trim, etc.). I also have a collection of extra parts (SSIs, MSD ignition, etc.) which are worth something if sold separately.

I am not to blame for the current market for longhoods. I have had this car 10 years and am not a flipper. When I bought this car it was lowered, tinted and had a big subwoofer on the back seats. This car has been a great driver and a fun restoration over the years. I just want to ensure that I do not under-insure my car if I keep it or under-value my car if I sell it

I am looking at buying a different car that is pretty sweet. I will likely buy the other car and see if I can find $$$, time and space for both.

[speeder]

If a car has been repainted, it's a respray. Not sure why this has some extra meaning to you(?). In fact, from your own description it was not a top-shelf job, just the outer surfaces resprayed. Original paint cars in good condition will always be worth more than repainted ones. Back in "the good old days", when mint condition early 911s were available at all times in the back of Pano or Hemmings, the words "no paintwork" were commonly seen to indicate 100% factory paint.

Those days are long gone. Besides the obvious run-up in prices, the quality of used early 911s available for sale has taken a precipitous dump. Everything is either restored on a budget or a "project". Your car is above average in the current garbage market but people calling it a #2 car simply don't have a clue how the rating system works. FWIW, Hagerty did not invent the rating system for collector cars.

I know that you did not buy the car to flip. Just for the fun of it, what did you originally pay for it? $5k? $6?

[coldstart]

Even ten years ago longhoods were fairly desirable.

The reason my username is coldstart is that I put two deposits down on cars that turned out to be junk. I also almost bought a black 1970 911S targa from Ottawa (bought by Tomy on this board, originally Mexico blue) that he found to be a rust bucket. I paid a good price for a good car from an extremely difficult seller.

[coldstart]

Also, it may be splitting hairs but I consider a respray different than a strip and repaint.

My car had been resprayed at least once over the original paint and the paint was thick in spots causing cracking and spidering. I fixed that issue and there are no hidden paint issues lurking beneath the surface....

[techweenie]

There is no better base for new paint than the original factory primer and paint. 'Bare metal paint jobs' are overrated.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by techweenie

There is no better base for new paint than the original factory primer and paint. 'Bare metal paint jobs' are overrated.

Agreed, so long as the OG base is solid and uniform. I am about the have my 1981 BMW motorcycle repainted by a really good shop and they are going to paint over the factory base after sanding it down to the right thickness. I could easily have it stripped completely but we agree that this will be a better job.

If the OG paint/primer is not solid or if there is a lot of crap paint/body work under the present finish, stripping can be the way to go. But then of course you need someone who uses quality materials and techniques to build it all back up.

[coldstart]

Thanks guys! I want to have a realistic value of my car-- even if it isn't what I want to hear.

I figured because I sprung for the bare metal repaint (it needed it to fix the paint issues) I would recoup some of the funds when I sold. I will not overvalue it.

[speeder]

You are going to more than recoup your investment. It has done quite well.

[CountD]

Originally Posted by techweenie

There is no better base for new paint than the original factory primer and paint. 'Bare metal paint jobs' are overrated.

Words of wisdom right here. When I was working at a vintage racing shop in Scottsdale, AZ during my school years, after several high-level paint jobs on some very rare and exotic stuff (250 GTO, 917, even Shelby Cobras, etc), no matter what, the car that kept some of the original base on the metal always looked better. Nothing beats the original base and adhesion. It's very hard to get the whole car done at once, have it completely contaminant free all at once, and on top of that to lay down paint on an essentially a rough, uneven surface.

[ficke]

Sounds like a good car and an honest assessment is the best way to approach a business decision.
I just would like to add to the repaint discussion. For a 911 to be considered a #2 car and repainted there can be no signs of a repaint, the car had to be disassembled and painted, nothing taped off, door handles out, all glass out, etc. There can be no tape marks or paint on the rubber strip between the front fenders and the body, front fenders had to be removed for a #2 level paint job. The doors had to be removed, because they were off when the factory painted the cars and the door pins have no paint on them to be considered a # 2 car. The devil is in the details and these are just a few of the details looked at by people who know 911's.
Hopefully I am adding information here and not 'beating a dead horse'
If the car was not disassembled when painted, it was a #3 level paint job.
Put the original parts back on like you suggested and sell the extras separately and you will make more money.

[christiandk]

[QUOTE=coldstart;8246399 I have had this car 10 years and am not a flipper.[/QUOTE]

If you did not buy it new you are indeed a flipper

I think that 50K is a bit low. Do you have the original booklets for the car?

Take a look at this and take into account EUR/USD, shipping, risk and import taxes (about 5% I think).

Porsche 911 Targa Angebote bei mobile.de


Good luck and have a nice weekend,

Christian

[coldstart]

Fenders, glass and all parts were removed for paint. The floors, interior, pans and jambs were not painted as the original paint was in excellent condition. The doors were not removed or disassembled for painting.

The doors were previously disassembled when I installed the new door pockets and armrests and cleaned and lubed the window assemblies. There was absolutely no signs of rust inside or outside the doors prior to painting.

The mirror (and engine) were removed too despite being present in the pictures. So was the majority of the interior!

[christiandk]

Thinking about it - If I were a Euro flipper I would probably think that 50k was too much. Look at what you can get on mobile - price negotiable. No risk with shipment and buying in the blind.

[coldstart]

I took some additional photos in my underground parking garage. I obviously will take some outside photos prior to listing for sale. I have to clean out the trunk and remove the carpet to take pictures of the battery boxes and front tray area (which I will do as they are rust free)

Any recommendations for photos for the purpose of listing the car for sale?

[coldstart]

I will reinstall the sport seat tonight. There are no issues with either the standard or sport seat.

The harsh white light in the garage does show all flaws so I likely should take the car outside. I didn't even realize that there was a ding in the driver side mirror! There are no dings or dents in the car. There is one small scratch around the rear lettering when I took the lettering off and there is a ding/scratch on the driver lower trim beneath the door.

[LakeCleElum]

Coldstart - Thank you so much for sharing. .....My 73.5 is a lot like your 72, so I appreciate the info........You are certainly not a "Flipper". Just someone that wants to sell and move on. A Flipper is someone who wants to turn a quick buck.

I recently talked to some shops in Europe. All of these long hoods are in big demand to them....You car is worth whatever someone will pay......

I've had mine for 24 yrs and a long ways from selling. If I was selling yours: I'd put notices everywhere and then put it on Ebay with a starting price of $50K and no reserve....G'luck...YMMV

[speeder]

Shoot photos of the car outdoors, not in direct sunlight. Wait until the sun is low in the sky, maybe an hour before sunset, and take lots of natural light photos of the inside and outside including the seats, dash and rust prone areas. Straighten out the horn button, for pete's sake. Get rid of whatever is making the interior look greasy like it's covered in armorall, maybe that's just the flash photos.

Flash photos are NEVER desirable to portray a car for sale. They suck. You've got a nice looking car there, proper photos and general presentation is needed.