912. In genera. Discuss.

[r-mm]

Originally Posted by pmax

Someone with a $35k budget for an aircooled Porsche can buy a
nice SC
decent 3.2
good middie
decent 912
beaten up 911T
etc

Why shouldn't all these be considered ?

Is nice better than good?

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by pmax

Someone with a $35k budget for an aircooled Porsche can buy a
nice SC
decent 3.2
good middie
decent 912
beaten up 911T
etc

Why shouldn't all these be considered ?

Because there isn't one universal Porsche customer. That's like asking why shouldn't that buyer consider a 2015 STi along with the '68 912. Afterall, they are both flat 4s, right?

[r-mm]

I'm laughing because of my utter failure to achieve my original goal - a discussion of the 912's merits when considered as competition to its non Porsche contemporaries. Long shadow.

[r-mm]

Is that rhetorical? can't tell...

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by pmax

When you bought your 912, did you already know you wanted one ?
That decision was based on .....

Try re-reading the thread. It's contained in several of my answers that I've already posted here.

The short answer? I wanted a SWB driver. I bought the car for its classic vintage style and didn't really care about the absolute performance. I got rid of an '85 Carrera to get my 912. I made the exact opposite choice of your example.

[TPorsche912]

Originally Posted by pmax

When you bought your 912, did you already know you wanted one ?
That decision was based on .....

I bought my 912 for several reasons:
#1 It was a Porsche
#2 It was a simple Porsche
#3 I had never owned a flat 4 cyl Porsche (I don't count my 914 cause it was the same engine as my dad's Campmobile at the time and prone to flame-outs.)
#4 It got good gas mileage. (just kidding)
#5 I got old and wanted to simplify my life.
#6 Noone else wanted it at the time. (times have changed a bit)

And the real reason I bought it. It wasn't all rusted out.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by pmax

And I speculate that "... the SWB 911 was too much money to be a driver."



So, in other words, the 912 is your "second" Porsche after you have had the good fortune of owning the 85.

You are correct that there isn't one universal Porsche customer.
I claim that it's unusual someone choosing the 912 as their first Porsche, if they can also afford a 911.

Definitely, for those on to their 2nd or 3rd cars , the 912 should be considered.

My 912 is my 14th Porsche, with a Carrera, two 914s and a 997 Cup Car still in my possession. You think that the 911 is the ONLY Porsche to have if you can only have one. I'm just not sure I agree. 7 years ago when I had a '70 911T and a '73 914 in the garage, I drove the 914 more often. Some of us enjoy driving slow cars quickly.

[BK911]

If your only metric is HP than the 912 isn't for you.

[Ronnie's.930]

It's definitely interesting to read peoples' differing opinions on what constitutes driving enjoyment, and you're right, TPorsche912, one (me included, for sure) needs to always keep in mind that they are "opinions".

I've owned my 930 for about 8 years and have put bookoo miles on it - the vast majority of which are highway commuting/cruising and city driving - and I get much pleasure out of using the car for this purpose. I do not drive foolishly (have never even gotten a speeding ticket in the thing), but I do boost it often (probably 10 plus times each time I drive it) and highway cruise at what some would call "very high speeds" - both of which I consider much fun.

Even just puttering around with it brings me great enjoyment and satisfaction, and the teenage hooligans that ficke mentioned are of no concern to me. Some of this might be due to me having an aftermarket turbocharger that has virtually eliminated lag and created a much more linear power delivery, and to the fact that I have a very modified a/c system to keep my various parts super-chilled even in the middle of TexASS summers. Also, working in the cramped confines of the engine bay is not a concern for me, and to tell you the truth, never imagined that anyone weighed that as a consideration for car choice.

Finally, I'm 47 and have owned a few weak engined, good handling cars (two 914s and two Opel GTs), and decided long ago that that is a combination that does absolutely nothing for me. I can appreciate a 912 for what it is, however, and do not look down my nose at people who like/own them (I make a lot of jokes about it, but folks that I aim zingers at know I'm just being an ass . . . aka - being a "Christian" or an "Eric"), but I would never consider buying one and would certainly not spend the kind of money that they are currently bringing for a vehicle who's rate of acceleration needs to be measured with a sundial .

[johnvan8]

Originally Posted by r-mm

I'm laughing because of my utter failure to achieve my original goal - a discussion of the 912's merits when considered as competition to its non Porsche contemporaries. Long shadow.

Back on topic: I think the 912 shines when compared to its non-Porsche contemporaries. The next best thing, IMHO, to a 67 912 would be a 67 BMW 1602 (similar power and size), I have driven both and much prefer the handling of the 912. Alfas make a nicer sound but again don't handle nearly as well and come from the factory with rust at no extra charge. I have never driven any of the British counterparts so cannot comment there.

[LakeCleElum]

Bought a 912 in the early '80's for $1,800.......The Dentist owner said: Don't drive it over 50 mph till you replace the front pan, it's all rusted out.

I did that. Took it to bare metal and painted myself......When done, my impression was that any sporty car needed more power and ability to take the top down on nice days. (Previously owned MG, AH 100-6, XKE, and Fiat 124).

Promptly sold it and bought the 73.5 Targa I've now had for 25 yrs.......

[CountD]

Originally Posted by TPorsche912

I bought my 912 for several reasons:
#1 It was a Porsche
#2 It was a simple Porsche
#3 I had never owned a flat 4 cyl Porsche (I don't count my 914 cause it was the same engine as my dad's Campmobile at the time and prone to flame-outs.)
#4 It got good gas mileage. (just kidding)
#5 I got old and wanted to simplify my life.
#6 Noone else wanted it at the time. (times have changed a bit)

And the real reason I bought it. It wasn't all rusted out.

These are all great reasons.

[Patrick3000]

If anyone knows of a good (little to now rust) project 74-77 coupe please send me a pm, casually looking for a father son project for Patrick.

[TPorsche912]

"Also, working in the cramped confines of the engine bay is not a concern for me, and to tell you the truth, never imagined that anyone weighed that as a consideration for car choice".

Ronnie...... Thanks for divulging your age. I would have felt exactly as you when I was at that stage of my life. I didn't even buy the 930 until I was 55 and couldn't wait to dig into the mechanicals and make it mine.

I started building cars when I was 12 yrs old. Built the 392 c.i. Hemi motor for my first 33 Ford in my bedroom when I was in Jr High. I've been building race cars, show cars, street cars for well over 50 yrs for myself and others and I guess it's just not as fun to have busted knuckles, sore backs, and aggravation anymore. I just had to replace the battery in my wifes FX a month ago and had to take half the engine compartment apart to even take the cables off. That aggravated me.

I'm certainly not at a point where I would pay anyone to do my grunt work, but I am trying to cut back on the amount of that work I take on. I'm a pretty easy going guy, but things just get on my nerves more these days. The myth about "grumpy old men" is actually based on truth I think. I didn't want it to happen to me, it just did. Maybe you'll be where I am in 20 yrs.

I would really be interested in the turbo you have on your car. When I upgraded to the K27 on mine, I did lots of research and at the time there wasn't anything that would really do much to lessen the lag. Folks were messing with hot side/cold side hybrids at the time, so maybe there's something these days that wasn't available 10 yrs ago. The K27 certainly lowered the rpm for the lag, but it also added more power so the sensation was actually increased. Please don't take this as a smart ass post. I really am interested.

[Matt Monson]

If you aren't a smart ass towards Ronnie he will ignore you.

[COLB]

This 68 912 just hit BAT for offers over $20k.

Looks like a nice driver for the money.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/854395-1968-porsche-912-coupe.html



Older repaint in non-original color. Rebuilt motor. Most rust seems to have been addressed, though not to concours-standard.

Very thorough ad with links to a grillion pictures.

A lot to like for low $20s.

[Ronnie's.930]

Right on Matt! I luvs me some smartassery fer sher!

Tp912, I totally get what you're saying and looking back over my words, the cramped confines are undoubtedly an irritant for me - primarily that I always dread the fact that to do almost anything in the engine bay requires removing many layers of parts that are in the way! I endurance raced, and serviced, a Ducati 748R for many years (and sprint raced other Ducatis), and it was the same deal; the engine is buried beneath a mountain of accessory components, so a job that should take an hour requires three hours of work just to get to it. I'm used to working like that, but it does get old.

The turbo is an Ultimate Motowerks K27 HyFlow - boost begins at just over 2KRPM and builds rapidly but steadily, and does not taper off at high RPM. The light switch effect boost sensation of the OEM turbo is gone, but the car accelerates much more quickly from the get-go. So in other words, while you no longer have the sudden hammer in the chest feel of the OEM turbo, you end up scooting down the road at a much quicker rate of speed than before, so that can take you by surprise at first and needs some getting used to. There are several turbocharges available now that work in similar fashion (Garret for one), and all require various levels of customization to fit.

[TPorsche912]

Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930

The light switch effect boost sensation of the OEM turbo is gone, but the car accelerates much more quickly from the get-go. So in other words, while you no longer have the sudden hammer in the chest feel of the OEM turbo, you end up scooting down the road at a much quicker rate of speed than before, so that can take you by surprise at first and needs some getting used to.

I think I'd rather get used to the "scooting down the road quicker" than the after-burner effect @ 3000 rpm. I don't think I really ever got used to that in 1st gear. Too much going on too quickly. Especially on a city street when being challenged by a hotshot in a modern muscle car. Not admitting to breaking any laws here. I'm pretty sure the speed limit was 105. Another reason I sold the car. I'm not real good at denying temptation or refusing a good challenge. Somebody had to keep the 930 mystique alive.

But, how much fun would it be if you can't watch that saucer eyed look on your invited guests during their first experience in the car. I used to tease em thru 1st gear, get their opinion, and then give them the full effect in 2nd all the way thru 3rd. Usually out of road after that.

[Ronnie's.930]

^^^ Ha! Still plenty of saucer eyes with this turbocharger, and your're right, the wide eyes, armrest grabbing, and "ohhhhh sh@@@@t" commentary from passengers is really funny! This early spooling turbo still provides the "locomotive" effect, but at much earlier RPMs and not as abruptly - still feels like your arms might get pulled of their sockets on highway on-ramps and so forth - ha!

[christiandk]

I'm puzzled about that sudden big interest Cowboy Ronnie has on the 912.

Has he realized that it is not small bursts of air and hard movements but how you drive it that matters in real life!?