Price effect -- AC delete and rolled fenders

[Reddy Kilowatt]

Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930

Do you think that your a/c delete 911 is more hardcore than my modified 911 Turbo with super-cold a/c? Which of the two do you think would be an easier challenge for a PRIUS?!

Respect his internet badassery.

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by Reddy Kilowatt

Respect his internet badassery.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by NYNick

I don't think either affects value; I think the lack of A/C affects the market size, however, if you do a complete A/C ripout.
Leaving all the A/C bits in place, and just removing the compressor(and including it in the sale) etc will do nothing to affect value.

It takes a enthusiast like a Pelicanite to notice the fenders, and that's a small and very critical part of the market size.

It does affect value. It's not opinion, its economics. When your audience is large, your price will not suffer as much of a discount as when your market is small. Baseline on these cars is stock form. Some mods add to the price, most detract, but stock is baseline. Removal of stock equipment affects the baseline lower. Addition of very desirable OEM equipment might make for increased value - Fuchs wheels of a larger size, for instance, or sport seats, or a 930 steering wheel, etc. But removal of stock parts, even if they are supplied with the vehicle, might make for a lower value. Let's say, if you put on SSIs, and wanted to sell in a place with strict air pollution regs. Sure, SSIs are great, but a potential buyer, even if you include the stock exhaust with the car, might think twice about buying. This reduces your audience, and thus your potential buyers. A smaller market means you are less likely to get top-of-the-market pricing, all other things being equal. The same goes for any stock parts. Yes, there are folks who don't care, or desire a non-AC car. But those folks are fewer than the folks who want the car stock or with AC. Thus, the economics dictate that you are more likely to get good pricing if you leave the stuff on. Better if it works. Even better if it works well, and the mods can't be seen. All other things being equal, a functional AC has a larger market than any other kind of AC configuration, and thus will command the largest price. For those folks who do not care, AC is not a value issue. For those folks that care about have a stock car or functional AC, then it's part of the value discussion.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by Nachtfalter

What does "please" mean?

If you walked away from a 911 because of the A/C, you didn't want it very badly. If a guy brought it up to haggle the price I would pat him on the back and tell him to leave.

Head bolts, bottom end, clutch or tranny..... sure, but the A/C? No.

It means, " Oh, please. "

I limited my search parameters to cars with AC. If it didn't have AC, I just passed the ad right by. Just like if the car was water-cooled. Or had no motor. Or was a Targa. Or a cabriolet. I had a specific set of needs, wants and nice-to-haves. Since I wanted to have the largest resale audience possible, in the event I ever wanted to sell the car, I had AC as a "need". While you might not be picky about what car you buy, I am. And what's more, I'm not nearly the only one. If some super-incredible deal would have come along while I was shopping, like a super-low-mile 930 in 2+ condition for $10k, but no AC? I would have bought that car without any question. But no deals like that showed up.

[NYNick]

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6

It does affect value. It's not opinion, its economics. When your audience is large, your price will not suffer as much of a discount as when your market is small. Baseline on these cars is stock form. Some mods add to the price, most detract, but stock is baseline. Removal of stock equipment affects the baseline lower. Addition of very desirable OEM equipment might make for increased value - Fuchs wheels of a larger size, for instance, or sport seats, or a 930 steering wheel, etc. But removal of stock parts, even if they are supplied with the vehicle, might make for a lower value. Let's say, if you put on SSIs, and wanted to sell in a place with strict air pollution regs. Sure, SSIs are great, but a potential buyer, even if you include the stock exhaust with the car, might think twice about buying. This reduces your audience, and thus your potential buyers. A smaller market means you are less likely to get top-of-the-market pricing, all other things being equal. The same goes for any stock parts. Yes, there are folks who don't care, or desire a non-AC car. But those folks are fewer than the folks who want the car stock or with AC. Thus, the economics dictate that you are more likely to get good pricing if you leave the stuff on. Better if it works. Even better if it works well, and the mods can't be seen. All other things being equal, a functional AC has a larger market than any other kind of AC configuration, and thus will command the largest price. For those folks who do not care, AC is not a value issue. For those folks that care about have a stock car or functional AC, then it's part of the value discussion.

Your logic and economic theory makes perfect sense, but leaves out emotion. Many times that overrides what some might consider a minor (and correctable) deficiency in a car.
All things being equal, you're right. But not all buyers, or cars, are equal.

[shaunmbenson]

I think what I'm gonna do is put my belt back on and see how well it works on a hot muggy Toronto day. If well enough I leave. If not - gone, hoses and all.

Thanks everyone -- seriously helpful

[doublebuffle]

Increases value. Saves me the trouble of doing it myself.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by NYNick

Your logic and economic theory makes perfect sense, but leaves out emotion. Many times that overrides what some might consider a minor (and correctable) deficiency in a car.
All things being equal, you're right. But not all buyers, or cars, are equal.

Exactly right. Which is why my first piece of advice for a new buyer is this:

Don't fall in love with the car.

[Jrboulder]

So now that the OP has his answer...

My car has a new aftermarket retroair AC system. My next Porsche (an SC or Carrera) will probably get all the retroair upgrades but on a factory layout. I could save about $1500-2000 by pulling my AC parts from my current Porsche and using them again on the next one. There aren't many 912Es with good AC so I guess this could fill a little niche. Should I sell it complete with AC, give the option to the buyer for an additional $1xxx or just pull the AC parts before selling?

[Ronnie's.930]

^^^

If it were me, I would list the car with the Retroair gear intact, really tout the sweetness of the a/c (complete with performance data) and price the car with the a/c in mind. No doubt you would find a buyer that would be thrilled to own a 912 with cold a/c and be happy to pay extra for it. If I were looking to buy a 912, seeing one listed with a Retroair system would be wood-inducing and I would pay more without hesitation.

[Matt Monson]

It means biatch please!
Ive been skipping this thread until now. I saw enough posts from Ronniethat I thought I might be missing out on some good asshattery. So I opened her up. Jesus h Christ. What is this knitting circle of old bitties going on about their ac??? I get that people live hot places and need their ac, but to dismiss a car over ac? Wow. I must live in the dark. 911 ac is so poor I don't even consider it when shopping. I always dismiss the ac threads in the tech forum as the realm of fanatics tilting at windmills. Sounds like I need to get educated because it sounds like there is now an ac solution. My new 74 no sunroof coupe has ac. I think I need to find out what to buy to make it work. But I will never buy or dismiss a Porsche based on the ac.

[Ronnie's.930]

So Matt, did the asshattery live up (down?) to your expectations?!?!?!

If you're ever interested in picking my feeble brain about Porsche a/c upgrades, I'll be glad to speak to you. I am currently running high 20s vent temperatures in mid 90s ambient, even at idle (I **** you not) - no magic involved, either.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

. But I will never buy or dismiss a Porsche based on the ac.

Yup, just like the other guy. If I were buying right now, I don't know if I would assign it as much importance. And the major rason for that is that when I bought my car, refurbishing the AC was a significant fraction of the purchase price. Nowadays, slapping in a whole system into a car that never had it would be much less of a fraction of the the purchase price. While I like AC when its hot, its not as important as when I bought the car.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930

So Matt, did the asshattery live up (down?) to your expectations?!?!?!

Compared to the tech forum AC thread asshattery, this thread was like a New England country club discussion over martinis.

Well, not Bushwood, but other country clubs.

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6

Well, not Bushwood, . . .

With a name like that, it MUST be a goodun (retro good, buttofcourse)!!!

[Jrboulder]

Ronnie, thanks for the input. I think you're right.

Matt, I don't plan on ever owning another Porsche without AC. Not in AZ, not in CO, not anywhere in the United States. IMO driving around in a car with an interior temp of 140F takes away from the fun a lot more than 60 extra lbs.

[manbridge 74]

Wait, what did I miss? I thought, Matt, you were dead set on a targa.... Is it white? Maybe you have my first 74 911.

I did road trip to Texas in 90 degree heat w/o AC but used a spray bottle filled with water. Tolerable, barely.

And there will be no gambling at Bushwood!

[shaunmbenson]

And I never slice

[COLB]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

It means biatch please!
Ive been skipping this thread until now. I saw enough posts from Ronniethat I thought I might be missing out on some good asshattery. So I opened her up. Jesus h Christ. What is this knitting circle of old bitties going on about their ac??? I get that people live hot places and need their ac, but to dismiss a car over ac? Wow. I must live in the dark. 911 ac is so poor I don't even consider it when shopping. I always dismiss the ac threads in the tech forum as the realm of fanatics tilting at windmills. Sounds like I need to get educated because it sounds like there is now an ac solution. My new 74 no sunroof coupe has ac. I think I need to find out what to buy to make it work. But I will never buy or dismiss a Porsche based on the ac.

Not the dark -- Denver.

Denver -- of the 25% humidity and 80 degree summer days.

Do you discount heat the same way?

I don't think anyone is saying they would dismiss a car over the A/C -- the original question is whether it would affect its value.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by COLB

I don't think anyone is saying they would dismiss a car over the A/C -- the original question is whether it would affect its value.

Well, when I was shopping, it was part of the filter. So, I suppose I did dismiss cars without AC. If I were going to do it again, I wouldn't, but I'd modify my internal price to reflect the reality of the value functional AC adds to the car.