Price effect -- AC delete and rolled fenders

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by COLB

Not the dark -- Denver.

Denver -- of the 25% humidity and 80 degree summer days.

Do you discount heat the same way?

I don't think anyone is saying they would dismiss a car over the A/C -- the original question is whether it would affect its value.

Um, our humidity is lower but our temps are hotter. Even with all our rain we've been in the 90s a lot.

My impreza has no ac. A mistake I made when I was shooting for max horsepower. I hate driving it in the summer. My 912 has no sunroof. It is even worse. But I wouldn't bat an eye at a car I was considering buying that doesn't hhave it unless its gonna be my daily and less than ten years old.

Manbridge, I bought the black 74 coupe in slantnose guise that was in the classifieds. I'll share more when it comes back from paint and body.

[COLB]

I lived 5 years in Colorado Springs -- it did get into the 90s, but those were a couple a weeks a year. And still, once the sun went down, it tended to cool off fast.

[Matt Monson]

So my new '74 came with 8x16 930 rear Fuchs. I'm having it built with SC flares to accommodate the wheels when the slantnose flares and boxes rockers are yanked off. Am I hurting my value?

It's 85 today. I wouldn't want to drive around with no AC.

[shaunmbenson]

So I just drove an hour and a half home from the track. 85 degrees with humidity making it feel like 95.
belt is off my AC and it wasn't bad -- Truly -- although I was already sweaty and buzzing from my first proper track day in 8 years so not a fair check.

This week I am gonna drive about 1000 miles on a road trip with belt back on -- that will be the real test -- do I use it or not and when I do do I like it enough to keep.

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

So my new '74 came with 8x16 930 rear Fuchs. I'm having it built with SC flares to accommodate the wheels when the slantnose flares and boxes rockers are yanked off. Am I hurting my value?

The car's value will only be hurt in the eyes of someone who is a performance enthusiast in theory alone, but YOUR value will be unaffected, I would think.

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

It's 85 today. I wouldn't want to drive around with no AC.

That would be considered a cold front around here; last night's low was 80, and the forecast lows for the next 7 nights are in the 80s.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930

The car's value will only be hurt in the eyes of someone who is a performance enthusiast in theory alone, but YOUR value will be unaffected, I would think.

That would be considered a cold front around here; last night's low was 80, and the forecast lows for the next 7 nights are in the 80s.

It makes MY value go up. I didn't buy the car to have some stock "collectible investment". I'm building my own style of sleeper.

You chose to live in hell. You can play one up games with your misery but at the end of the day you picked the armpit of Merica for your home.

[Ronnie's.930]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

You chose to live in hell. You can play one up games with your misery but at the end of the day you picked the armpit of Merica for your home.

So true! I have lived in this area since 1989, and have never liked the climate much, but over the last ten years or so, have grown to absolutely loathe it. I guess lack of balls is the only excuse I have for not moving somewhere that better suits my nature; maybe I'll grow a pair one day?!

PS- I think you would be tickled to see the lengths I go to to be comfortable here. You are aware of what I've done regarding car a/c, but in my home, I use a window unit in my bedroom, that I have equipped with a refrigeration controller, complete with frost sensor and a heating element for the a/c's temperature probe, that overrides the digital thermostat and gets every available drop of cooling out of that unit. And in my computer room/personal man cave, I have a widow unit that I removed the thermostat and replaced it with a toggle switch that I have connected to an extension cord; that way I can toggle the compressor off when I detect evaporator freezing and not even have to get out of my chair to do it. All of this is in addition to the home's central air.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

I didn't buy the car to have some stock "collectible investment".

It's not a binary condition. You can have fun driving a car AND want to be comfortable doing it. Or, as it turns out, bring a ladyfriend along. I have found that my wife is much more amenable to coming out with me to car events if she is comfortable.

Sure, for you, AC is not an issue. But that isn't what the OP was asking.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6

It's not a binary condition. You can have fun driving a car AND want to be comfortable doing it. Or, as it turns out, bring a ladyfriend along. I have found that my wife is much more amenable to coming out with me to car events if she is comfortable.

Sure, for you, AC is not an issue. But that isn't what the OP was asking.

You aren't paying attention.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

You aren't paying attention.

If you really think that, then you don't know how to read.

[NYNick]

If you haven't figured it out by now, it's a personal preference, based on location and usage. Plus, we're talking about many years and many models.

Personally, my wife (and I) could give two s#&@s whether my toy has A/C or not. I didn't buy it, nor do I use it, for comfort and convenience, although some people do. Plus, we live in NY, not some burning hell hole where A/C is mandatory.

The question was whether it affects value. The answer is, it depends on who's buying, and where they live. Expounding macro and micro economic theories is a waste of time.
Some people care and some don't. Why are we wasting our time projecting who's the majority?

[Last911]

Originally Posted by Ronnie's.930

So true! I have lived in this area since 1989, and have never liked the climate much, but over the last ten years or so, have grown to absolutely loathe it. I guess lack of balls is the only excuse I have for not moving somewhere that better suits my nature; maybe I'll grow a pair one day?!

PS- I think you would be tickled to see the lengths I go to to be comfortable here. You are aware of what I've done regarding car a/c, but in my home, I use a window unit in my bedroom, that I have equipped with a refrigeration controller, complete with frost sensor and a heating element for the a/c's temperature probe, that overrides the digital thermostat and gets every available drop of cooling out of that unit. And in my computer room/personal man cave, I have a widow unit that I removed the thermostat and replaced it with a toggle switch that I have connected to an extension cord; that way I can toggle the compressor off when I detect evaporator freezing and not even have to get out of my chair to do it. All of this is in addition to the home's central air.

Can I interest you in a move to Canada? -40 Celsius in the winter!

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by NYNick

If you haven't figured it out by now, it's a personal preference, based on location and usage.

Nope, it still isn't. And it hasn't been since collectors started driving the market. Even before that it wasn't entirely true. There are folks who live in places where AC is just never an issue. You put the windows down, and anything above 10mph is cool enough. Heck, I was born and raised in such a place, and never even was in a car with AC until I was in college. But this isn't about personal opinion, nor about looking down your nose at folks who might not have your personal priorities in Porsche purchasing. The overt snobbery that some folks have is always surprising.

This is strictly about economics. The cars that have functional AC are worth more, because they have the largest possible market. Cars with the AC equipment but non-functional and install have the next highest value. AC equipment provided along with the car, but not installed is next, and not present or never had it the lowest. Very important: all other things must be equal. And the effect is not large, especially considering the total cost of the car these days. I know, but, but, but. The advice folks always give is that it's cheaper to buy the car you want than it is to build what you want. In the small case of AC, that's still true. While your personal preference puts AC on the "who cares" list, the overall market doesn't care about that. It's like color. Most enthusiasts don't care much. But the market cares a lot. Rare and unusual colors that have no effect on how the car drives and can't be seen from the driver's seat, can have a big impact on selling price. Enthusiast priorities just aren't the most important ones any more. And I have no idea when enthusiast priorities will be on top again. Until they are, all the collector car valuation priorities are the ones we live with. Like it or not, AC is one of those priorities.

[Nachtfalter]

Ok fair enough,

But what about cruise control?
I wouldn't be caught dead in, or consider buying a 911 without functioning cruise control!��

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by Nachtfalter

Ok fair enough,

But what about cruise control?
I wouldn't be caught dead in, or consider buying a 911 without functioning cruise control!��

Well, since it's an aircooled 911, it's not functional.

[NYNick]

Originally Posted by SilberUrS6

Nope, it still isn't. And it hasn't been since collectors started driving the market. Even before that it wasn't entirely true. There are folks who live in places where AC is just never an issue. You put the windows down, and anything above 10mph is cool enough. Heck, I was born and raised in such a place, and never even was in a car with AC until I was in college. But this isn't about personal opinion, nor about looking down your nose at folks who might not have your personal priorities in Porsche purchasing. The overt snobbery that some folks have is always surprising.

This is strictly about economics. The cars that have functional AC are worth more, because they have the largest possible market. Cars with the AC equipment but non-functional and install have the next highest value. AC equipment provided along with the car, but not installed is next, and not present or never had it the lowest. Very important: all other things must be equal. And the effect is not large, especially considering the total cost of the car these days. I know, but, but, but. The advice folks always give is that it's cheaper to buy the car you want than it is to build what you want. In the small case of AC, that's still true. While your personal preference puts AC on the "who cares" list, the overall market doesn't care about that. It's like color. Most enthusiasts don't care much. But the market cares a lot. Rare and unusual colors that have no effect on how the car drives and can't be seen from the driver's seat, can have a big impact on selling price. Enthusiast priorities just aren't the most important ones any more. And I have no idea when enthusiast priorities will be on top again. Until they are, all the collector car valuation priorities are the ones we live with. Like it or not, AC is one of those priorities.

Yes, it is, but there's no use trying to convince you otherwise since you believe the market is being driven by investors.

[JBurer]

Rolled fenders? Great!

No A/C? It would need a pretty big discount to get this guy living in Austin, TX interested! Probably the cost of re-installing one at a pricey mechanic plus some for the hassle of dealing with it.

Frankly, the last time I didn't care about having A/C I was pulling out power steering pumps from cars designed to work with them, premixing 2 stroke oil in gasoline, racing seat & 5pt harnesses on the street and... no A/C. That was in the late 90's.

Occasionally I like to drive my toys to work, which means I'm wearing slacks and a button up with an undershirt. No A/C in a warm climate means swamp butt for half the day.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by NYNick

Yes, it is, but there's no use trying to convince you otherwise since you believe the market is being driven by investors.

Agreed. I keep seeing these assertions that investors have taken control of the market. I find it laughable.

I think the only thing the small anecdotal sampling this thread has provided is that to some people AC adds value or takes it away if it is missing. Kind of like color. Some guys will pay more for a special color. Others don't care much about it and buy the GR or black car for less because how it drives is their priority.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

I keep seeing these assertions that investors have taken control of the market. I find it laughable.

I think the only thing the small anecdotal sampling this thread has provided is that to some people AC adds value or takes it away if it is missing. Kind of like color. Some guys will pay more for a special color. Others don't care much about it and buy the GR or black car for less because how it drives is their priority.

Here's where you guys give the game away. Color has no effect on the performance of the car. And yet, as we have noted for years, black, white, silver and red set the baseline for pricing. But why? An enthusiast doesn't buy a color, he buys a car in the best possible condition, right? Oh, but collectors buy colors, and when everything else is equal, a more rare color brings a higher price. Rarity is not an enthusiast parameter. It's a collector parameter. The prices for even the pedestrian driver cars has nearly doubled over the past four years, and somehow you guys would claim that the collector market is not material? When flippers and dealers are turning cars around in days and making thousands on the flip? A couple of years ago, we would have all laughed at the idea of a $50000 SC. And one priced that that would have sat for a very long time. But somehow, according to you guys, enthusiasts are being minted newly every day, crawling out of the woodwork and pushing prices up?

Get real. Or at least back up your "analysis" with data. ANY data.

[Matt Monson]

Um, as I stated my analysis suggests that our small anecdotal sampling does not provide enough data to draw conlusions regarding the market value of functioning ac. It matters to some people. To some people it matters so much that they won't buy a car without it. We have nothing to determine how much value that ac adds and since this is the first thread I have ever seen discussing as and its relation to value I wouldn't begin to claim I have any idea what it is worth. And I never claimed otherwise. My opening post to this thread expressed my surprise that it matters to a significant percentage of owners. How many collectors does it matter to? You got me.