Quick Help with Value Please - 993 Tip (with photos)

[2ndTARGA]

Hey everyone: I could use a gut check from the collective wisdom on this one.

Pros:

• The specific color combination I want: Polar/Black
• TIP (I have a left foot issue)
• More of a driver than show car - I plan to use it almost daily and don't want to always be paranoid.
• Mileage not excessive - 75K
• Interior is 9.5 or better
• Exterior is also stunning on first glance (see below)
• Lots maintenance in past 3 years from meticulous owner - everything works

Cons:

• No service records or owner history prior to 2013
• Partially resprayed at some point with a few very hard to find, small flaws
• Larger flaw in that the rear quarters color match is slightly off from deck lid and doors (see photos)
• There may be an issue with the tip operation (I'm addressing on the Technical Forum) but let's leave that out of the equation for the value question.

Opinions on current market value would be really helpful. Thanks!

[2ndTARGA]

One more photo (I couldn't add it above)

[2ndTARGA]

Any guesses?

Thx,

Ron

[iluv911]

40k tip kills value

[pnut_lee]

I was thinking $40k-$45k also. Low mileage, but Tip is a killer.

[amg463]

at 40k nobody would be knocking down his door. you'd probably be able to get it for 30-35.

[msark]

38k would be a real bargain, 40k-42k a good buy and 42k-45k fair market....

Tiptronic doesn't kill the market.... It limits the number of interested buyers.

Alternately, for those who drive in traffic or have no need to prove their shifting prowess it's a good choice. And many of those looking for a tiptronic have more financial wherewithal than those who would only accept a manual.....

[christiandk]

Originally Posted by msark

38k would be a real bargain, 40k-42k a good buy and 42k-45k fair market....

Tiptronic doesn't kill the market.... It limits the number of interested buyers.

Alternately, for those who drive in traffic or have no need to prove their shifting prowess it's a good choice. And many of those looking for a tiptronic have more financial wherewithal than those who would only accept a manual.....

+1

Around 40 depending on condition.

[specialtyoneinc]

A super nice 95 Coupe with 40k miles just sold for $60k.

[pnut_lee]

[QUOTE=msark;9134148]Tiptronic doesn't kill the market.... It limits the number of interested buyers./QUOTE]

I would simply point out that if this were a manual it would be gone at $55k. This one is $10k-$15k lower due to the transmission. That by definition is killing the market........ A smaller buying pool, hence lower demand sets the ceiling for a car like this.

Originally Posted by msark

And many of those looking for a tiptronic have more financial wherewithal than those who would only accept a manual.....

Do you have data to back up this statement? Seems a little far fetched to make a general statement that those looking for a Tip have more financial wherewithal than those looking for a manual...........

[2ndTARGA]

Thanks to everyone for the great input. The seller and I seem to be in the right ballpark so I'm moving on to the PPI and will update you.

The Tip vs. 6-speed comments are all valid. I spent most of the last year rejecting all automatic cars but finally decided I've done enough track days and high performance driving in my life and what I like most about a 993 is that you can drive them most of the time - and for me that means in and out of heavy traffic. After my last 6-speed test drive I had to admit my problematic left foot is not up to the task and I think I've now become a Tip convert.

Funny thing, when I wanted a 6-speed, Tips seemed to be under every rock. But now that I want one it seems finding a nice auto coupe is a real challenge - especially in the color I want. I'm not worried about resale anytime soon, but I wonder if more of us aging boomers will create a stable demand for Tips as time passes.

Thanks again.......

[rgofast]

I believe you are correct. I do think the tips will appreciate in value in the future, as the manual transmissions are being phased out, PDK will be the norm. Granted PDK and Tiptronic are two very different animals, as the tip has the older torque converter technology. The tip is actually a very intelligent electronically controlled transmission, which interacts with driver inputs, and lateral velocitys to determine the shift algorithm. I always drive in the manual mode, so I don't make much use of all of the technology. It is addressed in Vic Elfords book though. The next generation of drivers will not be driving manuals, and existing manuals are becoming so expensive that they are out of reach for a lot of people. If they are purchased at a premium, people are afraid to drive them and put milage on them. There is nothing wrong with a tip you are buying it to Drive. What sort of tiptronic issues are you having? Any codes? These are pretty robust transmissions, and give few problems, as long as you use the correct fluid, change it often and have it at the right level.

[2ndTARGA]

Thanks rgofast - much appreciated. The PPI is set for tomorrow so we'll soon know about any codes, but the two issues I noticed during the test drive are described in the link below. I'd be grateful for your thoughts.

Ron

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/915556-tiptronic-993-slow-start-1st-gear-normal.html

[techweenie]

Tip is not the big hit everyone is projecting. However, lack of records is not good. If it's a 95, less of a hit with records. The 96-98 secondary air issue is always a cloud on the horizon, so you especially want records for those years.

Looks mid-$40s to me.

[rgofast]

2nd Targa, I posted some information from my own experiences with tip on your technical thread. As far as SAI issues, it is easy to avoid. Don't drive the car like an LOL (little old lady). The tips have more secondary air injection problems because people get lazy with the transmission and do not rev them. These cars need to driven hard and be taken to redline often. Also it is wise to remove the upper valve covers every so often and flush and blow out the Secondary air injection ports which are accessible thru the three top upper valve cover bolt holes. Special adaptors can be made to screw into these holes which allow you to inject fluid and compressed air. The resulting flow can be heard out the tail pipes once the ports are clear. If you need the procedure PM me. We have seen engines torn down to unplug SAI ports, which could have been cleared this way. I have cleared up SAI issues which have already thrown a check engine lite and code using this procedure. I think weenie is right, 40-45K. What does the car fax show as far as stories? Nothing wrong with quality repairs from small incidents that are don so they cannot be detected. Noticeable paint mismatch is not so good. Hopefully you can get it corrected. Make sure you have the car thouroghly inspected by an expert body an so you are aware of any rea paired areas. Sometimes incidents are not reflected on car fax, and can be covered up buy not running an accident through insurance. When we bought our 993 I made the dealership put the car inside under the lights. I then detailed it, and found out about all incidents, and partial paint repairs. I then had them put it up on the lift, so I could inspect the underbelly, and make note of the common oil leaks. I had the price adjusted accordingly, and got the car for $28,000 with less than 68000 miles

[johnvan8]

[QUOTE=pnut_lee;9134345]

Originally Posted by msark

Tiptronic doesn't kill the market.... It limits the number of interested buyers./QUOTE]

I would simply point out that if this were a manual it would be gone at $55k. This one is $10k-$15k lower due to the transmission. That by definition is killing the market........ A smaller buying pool, hence lower demand sets the ceiling for a car like this.



Do you have data to back up this statement? Seems a little far fetched to make a general statement that those looking for a Tip have more financial wherewithal than those looking for a manual...........

That's a fairly simple one. Take 2 groups of 100 guys. Those who must have 6 speed an those who are OK with Tiptronic. The average age of the Tiptronic group will certainly be older (and wealthier) than the 6-speed guys. So, statistically speaking, the average Tip buyer is likely older/wealthier than the 6-speed guy, just by virtue of the age difference. I, for one, am heading in that direction myself; slowly but surely...

[pnut_lee]

[QUOTE=johnvan8;9135172]

Originally Posted by pnut_lee

That's a fairly simple one. Take 2 groups of 100 guys. Those who must have 6 speed an those who are OK with Tiptronic. The average age of the Tiptronic group will certainly be older (and wealthier) than the 6-speed guys. So, statistically speaking, the average Tip buyer is likely older/wealthier than the 6-speed guy, just by virtue of the age difference. I, for one, am heading in that direction myself; slowly but surely...

Fair argument if it were true that those buying Tips are all aging men. What percentage are buying because of a limiting factor such as 1) Injury, 2) Wife's car and she prefers to not hassle with a clutch, 3) Daily driver makes it more convenient in heavy traffic, 4) Guy has never driven a stick but wants a Porsche (probably rarest of the bunch). The four prospective buyers in that group are not necessarily older or wealthier, it just means the Tip is a better fit for their lifestyle.

[johnvan8]

I don't think you understood what I was saying. I never said that Tip buyers are ALL aging men. What I said was that, STATISTICALLY speaking, a Tip buyer is more likely than not to be older/wealthier than a 6-speed buyer. I'm speaking in statistical terms, not absolute terms. Are there young wealthy Tip buyers? Of course. Old broke dudes who must shift manually? Of course. But they're the exception rather than the rule.

[rayng]

i have a 95 993c2 tip for driving to work a day or two a week in heavy traffic. i would not drive the 97c2s to work. i hate the hundreds of 1st-2nd-1st shifts while avoiding lane splitting sport bike riders on the 405 and 101.

it's all a matter of preference. the delta between a speed and a tip is not that significant yet, unless you are talking 599s.

let's just enjoy what we drive and worry less about what other guys think or what the present value is. unless we have an offer on the table, what does it matter anyway?

i'd pay 40-45k for that tip. it looks like a nice car.

[pnut_lee]

Originally Posted by johnvan8

I don't think you understood what I was saying. I never said that Tip buyers are ALL aging men. What I said was that, STATISTICALLY speaking, a Tip buyer is more likely than not to be older/wealthier than a 6-speed buyer. I'm speaking in statistical terms, not absolute terms. Are there young wealthy Tip buyers? Of course. Old broke dudes who must shift manually? Of course. But they're the exception rather than the rule.

I understood completely what you were saying, and point well taken. I'm just arguing that I don't 100% buy into the idea that older wealthier men make up the majority of Tip buyers. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. Even though it's easy to assume that's the case, I'm not so sure. Without conclusive data none of us can be so certain. It would make for an interesting poll question in the 993/964 forum.