Theory on why BAT gets higher prices than Ebay

[sugarwood]

Just offering one possible slice of the whole picture. Like many of you, I enjoy browsing vintage cars for sale. I sometimes check out the BAT results, and it's fun to see what cars actually sell for.

I noticed that I don't even look at Ebay anymore. There is a finite amount of time one can waste on browsing cars on the internet. For a real buyer, Ebay may feel pointless since it's a decreasingly viable place to find a good car, since the signal to noise is so low. and most listings are crack pipe dealer cars that few people are actually going to buy, or hacked up turds that would never sell in person. It became a showcase for dealers and flippers. These auctions are boring, since most cars have crazy asking prices and never actually sell. There is no "action" to follow, which is part of the fun. Once the number of private party sales started to get drowned out by recurring ads of flipper cars in front of a curtain, I slowly stopped watching Ebay. I just delete the alert emails now. A typical buyer may tire of sifting through the extremes hoping to find a decent car that might actually sell for a decent price.

So, if I am a representative anecdote, my theory is that other people have also stopped looking at Ebay entirely, and have moved on BAT. So, does BAT steal eyeballs and gets the real buyers who have cash in hand, but don't want to pay crack pipe dealer prices, and are no longer willing to sift through Ebay for viable candidates?

Ironically, maybe the contrarian place to find a car is now Ebay, with an unnoticed private party listing, if there is indeed a trend of people not bothering to look at Ebay, as much as in the past.

[911 sc]

I think mainly because bat polices there adds very well !

eBay is rife with scam and shill bidding.

Or maybe the scammers have not yet found out about bat

[maninblack]

Are you certain that BaT gets higher prices than eBay? What data do you have to support your position?

[billh1963]

Cars do sell on eBay. However, as you have noticed the ridiculous stuff seems to sit. Now that the market cooling has begun that may change.

BaT is different because they expect you to set a realistic reserve (if any). This almost guarantees the car will sell ( some don't). The interactive forum helps keep the auction interesting.

eBay is going to have to change its model soon. I've been on eBay since 1999 and rarely go their any longer. It's like a damn flea market....lots of trash sold by dealers with very few good items

[specialtyoneinc]

BAT requires bidders to leave a 5% deposit. The winning bidder will forfeit the 5% deposit if he doesn't want to follow through with the deal (think it's up to $5k). eBay on the other hand is a non binding bid policy and is often used as a classified ad for dealers. It's hard to tell what eBay vehicles actually sell for. (lots of deadbeat bidders/shills etc...)

[gshiwota]

Personally I wouldn't buy a car off of eBay unless I could see it in person before I bid. There are just too many scammers on eBay which makes it hard for buyers and legitimate sellers. BAT doesn't have this problems (at least not yet) as each of the cars undergo some level of vetting whether is during the listing process or during the auction.

[sugarwood]

What is this so-called BAT vetting?
They do not physically inspect the cars.

So, what do they do?
Comment on the photos?
Disallow total junkers?
I think you can do the same vetting on an Ebay ad.

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by maninblack

Are you certain that BaT gets higher prices than eBay? What data do you have to support your position?

I just saw a BMW 2002 sell for $50k.

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by billh1963

eBay is going to have to change its model soon. I've been on eBay since 1999 and rarely go their any longer. It's like a damn flea market....lots of trash sold by dealers with very few good items

This is sort of what I was getting at. It is no longer interesting to look at Ebay, b/c there seems to be fewer and fewer real retail sales. I realize a major part of the fun of watching is to see final sales prices. I haven't looked at Ebay in over a year, I think.

[Rick Brooklyn]

I think that rightly or not bat does come across as a more actively managed platform, which inspires more trust and may lead to more confident bidding. Bad sellers like the guy who hung up on me last year or the one who strung me along then disappeared then sold the car away seem to self-select out of a site like bat. Although it's not immune to getting it wrong a few times as we've seen.

[wally509]

I'm the exact same way...used to look at ebay regularly, now it's pretty much occasionally and only for the marques I'm particularly interested in (Austin Healey 1952-1956, BMW 1977-1983 3 series, Opel, Porsche 1974-1998, VW 1983-1984) and nothing else at this point.

I go to BaT daily I guess because I'M not a serious buyer, just looking. With BaT I like the comments and the totally eclectic mix of cars. Recent and currently there were an AMC Hornet AMX, Citroen SM, BMW e21 Alpina, 240D Mercedes, a Rover V8 swapped MGB, plus a few Porsches and a couple Ferraris. Where else are you going to see a mix like that? You'd spend hours on ebay going through every single marque to see that kind of variety.

As far as the buying goes, BaT seems more like a real auction house. They seem to pound reserves low enough many cars sell at deal prices making it worthwhile for buyers to spend time there. Cars that don't meet reserve, they do get involved after the auction to try to put deals together, again like a real auction house.

[ficke]

I am seeing this same trend as the OP, for fun, browse on BAT.
But buy on Ebay, and Sell on BAT.
Deals are made by bucking the trends of the average.

[techweenie]

Having recently sold a car on BaT, I have to say the comments are the most positive thing. It's community-policed so that the useless c@ap you see on most forums (the reason Wayne banned them on Porsches for Sale section) disappears quickly. You get personal experiences, information about the car type - things to watch for, etc. You get the engagement of the seller (if they have any sense at all) to answer detailed queries...

The result is that you 'know' the seller - something eBay cannot easily duplicate. It raises the confidence level - and the bids. It's ideal for rare cars.

eBay has lots of good cars, I'm sure, but for a percentage of them, it's the 'last resort' for cars that cannot stand up to in-person inspection. Consequently, I usually figure on bidding only to about 85% of what a car *should* be worth.

[Matt Monson]

I agree with TW about the transparency and dialogue. If someone on ebay asks a question that reveals a hidden issue with the car the seller NEVER publishes the exchange in the questions section. It is always done privately. On BaT that same question gets seen by everyone and answered publicly. That's a huge thing to creating trust and from preventing shady sellers trying to doll up turds from listing their cars there.

[Macroni]

I do not know if I agree with this premise. A low mile SC just sold for $38,000. IMO this was very reasonable…...

[blucille]

One interesting trend I've noticed lately is guys who run fairly ordinary consignment shops for vintage cars are now leveraging BAT auctions to make up for the otherwise unimpressive online marketing strategies. I like some consignment shops, you get to see a variety of cars at a glance, and the shop owners typically are good guys just looking to connect good cars from good sellers with new owners. But to see a consignor then push the car out to BAT, what value is he adding, I suppose just adding one more layer to the sale, insulating the seller from having to handle the negotiations and the sale.

I'm curious what the next steps for BAT will be, will they offer recommended Ppi shops or photography or detailing services on a regional basis? The business model seems very well received, and the revenue generated is extreme.

I see the comment sections a lot like Wikipedia, that during the course of the auction, if someone chimes in some artificially negative comment to keep bidding low, not only will it get reported, but the rest of the community will chime in to keep everyone honest.

If I was selling anything these days (obviously, good, honest cars), BAT seems like the way to go.

[Djs36345]

im not sure why everyone is lauding BAT as such a great thing for the seller. It looks as if cars are going for wholesale prices. Selling privately gets you more money in the end. Maybe for the less drama factor, sure.

[Skwerl]

The differences in perception are pretty interesting. Some saying BaT is where you get wholesale bargains, others that it's the place to sell.

It's certainly more fun to look at than eBay just because every car on there is cool in some way, and not listed by dealers at hilariously inflated margins.

[artie_nash]

Buyers are liars and sellers are too...In my opinion and experience anything you can do - everything else being equal - to neck down and reduce your exposure to the dreamers, freaks, flakes, floaters, scam artists, shill bidders, screamers and wannabes will increase the likelihood of a successful transaction...So many people have so many misconceptions about motor vehicles in general and the market reality in particular it's a wonder to me anything ever gets sold...Almost every legitimate commercial dealer in the United Sates reports the financial details of nearly every transaction to a handful of central data aggregators for the purpose of establishing and measuring the market...But the mounds of data generated are only as meaningful as the party interpreting same...After many years of buying and selling at practically every level of the marketplace I have concluded a successful vehicle transaction is a lot like settling a civil action: If both parties feel like they could have done a little bit better it was probably within the parameters of reality...Your mileage may vary...RTN/XXX/OOO

[ficke]

Originally Posted by artie_nash

Buyers are liars and sellers are too...In my opinion and experience anything you can do - everything else being equal - to neck down and reduce your exposure to the dreamers, freaks, flakes, floaters, scam artists, shill bidders, screamers and wannabes will increase the likelihood of a successful transaction...So many people have so many misconceptions about motor vehicles in general and the market reality in particular it's a wonder to me anything ever gets sold...Almost every legitimate commercial dealer in the United Sates reports the financial details of nearly every transaction to a handful of central data aggregators for the purpose of establishing and measuring the market...But the mounds of data generated are only as meaningful as the party interpreting same...After many years of buying and selling at practically every level of the marketplace I have concluded a successful vehicle transaction is a lot like settling a civil action: If both parties feel like they could have done a little bit better it was probably within the parameters of reality...Your mileage may vary...RTN/XXX/OOO

That was a great!